Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Streaming in reception

47 replies

rumtumtugger · 17/10/2014 23:43

This seems deeply unfashionable nowadays - what are the pros/cons of streaming/not streaming from reception?

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
rumtumtugger · 18/10/2014 18:57

Ok so DH is adamant that she didn't mention the word 'streaming' so it looks like I was imagining it ??.

So - if the proper terminology is 'setting', then I'm still confused as to what the pros/cons are? Why don't all schools do it? The others I've visited are staunchly in favour of mixed ability classrooms.

OP posts:
Purpleflamingos · 18/10/2014 19:06

I thought reception was streamed. The TA pulls out small groups if similar ability children for work such as phonics and reading practice (later in the year). Surely it's easier to teach in small groups of similar ability. Aside front that reception is play based with a strong emphasis on social manners.

hollie84 · 18/10/2014 19:09

Of course they split children for literacy and numeracy - how would it work otherwise? Some children in reception don't recognise any numbers at all, some can do addition and subtraction up to 20. Some don't know any English yet and some can already read.

Hakluyt · 18/10/2014 19:11

Purple flamingos- that's not streaming. If you read the thread, you'll see that several people have explained the difference.

Hakluyt · 18/10/2014 19:13

And I have never come across a primary school that does not do some work in small groups of similarly ability children- particularly phonics and some number work.

hollie84 · 18/10/2014 19:13

Streaming would mean teaching all the high ability/middle ability/low ability children together for everything.

Setting is done by subject.

In reception it's not even really setting, just grouping children according to ability for specific activities. A child might grasp phonics very quickly but not know any numbers, or be able to count to 100 but be unable to blend words together - so would be grouped differently depending on what the class was doing.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 18/10/2014 19:26

That's not streaming purple. Reception is almost never streamed.

As I understand it:

Streaming - where children are put into broad groups based on general ability across all subject. Most often seen in secondary where a comprehensive where schools might have a 'grammar stream', a 'middle stream' and a 'lower' stream. The grammar system itself is essentially streaming.

Setting - where children are put in ability classes for specific subjects e.g. numeracy or literacy. Common for core subjects in secondary, sometimes happens in primaries with more than one class per year with children being set for literacy/phonics/numeracy. Schools that stream may have sets within each stream.

Ability grouping - happens within classes. Children are taught the same lesson by one teacher but are organised into groups/tables and given differentiated work. Might happen in a mixed ability class or within a set.

I expect only the third of those is common in reception, with setting being less common and streaming almost unheard of.

rumtumtugger · 18/10/2014 20:06

I'm still really confused! Some schools talk about mixed ability classrooms for everything - so then some schools don't have mixed ability classrooms, they 'stream'.

What are the pros/cons of either approach?

OP posts:
Hakluyt · 18/10/2014 20:09

Right. First point. Have you grasped the difference between setting and streaming?

rumtumtugger · 18/10/2014 20:17

Bloody hell! Yes miss

OP posts:
Hakluyt · 18/10/2014 20:21

Sorry. I was trying to help. The fact that you said streaming in your latest post led me to believe that you didn't and people hadn't explained it properly.

As you were. Carry on. Bye!

CharlesRyder · 18/10/2014 20:38

Basically, rumtumtugger, there is not point having a conversation about streaming in state Reception as it just doesn't happen. What does happen is delivery of teacher led activities by 'ability' grouping-which is fine and necessary.

If you want 'streaming' you must sit your DC for 4+ at a selective Independent school.

The pros and cons of this could be discussed.

spanieleyes · 18/10/2014 20:50

Shall we try again!
Imagine you have 60 children. The school divides them into 2, the bright and the not so bright and puts all the bright ones in one class and all the not so bright ones in the other. A child in the " not so bright " class however is a mathematical genius. It doesn't matter because s/he has been assessed on the basis of some other quality! This is streaming.
In school 2, the children are divided into ability groups for literacy, numeracy, science etc. So a child can be in Class 1 for maths, class 3 for literacy and class 2 for science. This is setting.
In school 3, all the children are randomly allocated to a class, the teacher continuously assesses the children and puts them into small groups depending on their ability in a specific activity, group 1 for phonics this week as they are secure on digaphs and can move on to trigraphs, , group 2 for writing as it's fiction and they can write clear paragraphs, but watch out next week as they may need to slip down to group3 as they are not secure with non fiction features, group 3 for maths this week as we are telling the time and they can't but group 1 next week because they are really good at division. This is called "teaching"

rumtumtugger · 18/10/2014 21:33

Spaniel are you suggesting they don't teach in schools 1&2 then?!

What are the pros and cons of the way they teach in your example schools 2 and 3? I'm going to keep asking...

OP posts:
Thatssofunny · 18/10/2014 21:40

I'm still really confused! Some schools talk about mixed ability classrooms for everything - so then some schools don't have mixed ability classrooms, they 'stream'.
You are still confused with the fact that "streaming" means children, who are considered "bright" are all taught in the same class and those, who are considered "not so bright" are also all taught in the same class. They would be taught everything together in that class and not move,...even, if one of them might be really clever in one area, i.e. Maths or reading, they'd still stay in the lower class, if that's what they'd been allocated to.
For "setting", children are in mixed-ability classes, but they get split up and perhaps go to a different room, if they are very strong at phonics, or perhaps need support in Maths. After that session, they go back to their mixed-ability class.
What happens in most primary schools is that children are in mixed-ability classes. The teacher or LSA pulls them out for specific small group work. This is similar to setting, but a lot more flexible. So a child, who is very good at number work, might work in the "more able" group one week, but perhaps struggles with shapes and therefore then works with the "average" or "support" group in that week.

What are the pros/cons of either approach?
"Streaming" possibly makes management and timetabling easier. It's a ridiculous approach for a reception class, though, since children develop in different ways and at different speeds. I'd also consider it a silly approach for most of primary,...and indeed secondary schooling. It assumes that a child, who is strong in one area, will be strong in everything else and that a child, who is seen as academically weak in one area, is incapable of showing strengths in other areas. It can be harmful and might limit children's potential, aspirations and opportunities.
"Setting" is helpful for teachers, because they tend to have less of an ability gap in their lessons and therefore don't need to try and differentiate at such great lengths. Again, it doesn't take into account for example that children might be good at number, but less good at shape. Depending on how schools set, certain subjects might be linked, so someone, who is very good at Maths is also assumed to be very good at Science and put into the top groups for both. Someone, who struggles with English, therefore might get put into a lower set for History, despite perhaps being very good and having a high level of understanding in the subject.
"Mixed-ability", in the way most schools use it, works on the idea of differentiation. It means children work in ability groups, but these are supposed to be fluent and flexible (not all schools work that way, though, I appreciate that). So, if a child, who is usually very able in Maths struggles with a particular concept, they might move to the lower group to support their understanding while this concept is being covered. Someone, who has proven that they have understood something more quickly, gets moved up and challenged further for that week/lesson.

rumtumtugger · 18/10/2014 22:01

Thank you thisissofunny - I appreciate your long post. I'm still wondering why the head of the primary that we visited talked up the fact that they didn't teach in mixed-ability classrooms. Think I might just email her for clarification though! Thanks to those that patiently explained the differences between setting/streaming - it looks like I might be in the bottom set for understanding education terminology!

OP posts:
rumtumtugger · 18/10/2014 22:02

*thatssofunny

OP posts:
Thatssofunny · 18/10/2014 22:19

rumtumtugger It possibly depends on what they are being taught in separate classes for. There are some schools, where phonics, for example, is set across the school (so, there might be children from Reception, Y1 and Y2 all in the same group, if they are all at the same level...I have to admit, I wouldn't want to be that Y2 child).
There are parents, who believe that children being taught in sets from a very early age is beneficial, because they assume that this is the only way their child can be stretched and challenged. Consequently, headteachers will use this as a positive feature of their school, if indeed the catchment area is inclined that way. You'd have to dig a little deeper to see what it would actually mean for your own child, though.

From a personal point of view, I wouldn't touch a primary school that taught in "streamed" classes from reception with a barge pole. I teach Years 5 and 6. I get children, who have been causing a worry for their parents and teachers all the way from Reception until they get to me in upper KS2...and then suddenly, it clicks. They mature and their own priorities change a little and all of a sudden, some of the children, who would have been dumped in the "less able" class and possibly grown up with this all the way through, end up in my top groups and with level 5 and 6 targets at the end of their primary school time. I've got a few of those,...and one of the main things that has helped them shift is a high level of expectations. "I'm rubbish at Maths/English..." isn't an acceptable excuse for ours. I think it would be way too easy to label a child as "not academic" and then to expect them to remain less able all the way through. That's nonsense, though. In the past, I've taught bottom sets. Some of them had already given up before we had even started the year.
I do love my mixed-ability class, though, so I'm slightly biased. All of them are good and not so good at one thing or another. Grin

LittleMissGreen · 18/10/2014 22:31

Our school have mixed ability classrooms within foundation phase (up to end of year 2). The teachers know the ability of all children and they are graded from 1-4 (1 top, 4 bottom). They then make up groupings of grade 1 and 3 children and groupings of 2 and 4 children. We find it works well having mixed ability children in a group and the school gets good results.

ChocolateWombat · 20/10/2014 18:02

Many people use the word 'streaming' when in fact what they mean is setting, or differentiated groups.

I don't think the OP meant that her school had split the year into ability groups which covered all teaching. And I think most people on here know she didn't mean that.

She was asking about differentiated groups, for perhaps phonics or numeracy, within the class.

And yes it is common from pretty early on, as it is clear early on that some children start reception knowing more than others. So some children can read, others know a few sounds and others know nothing. Some can count accurately to 30 and count actual objects and recognise many numbers, whilst others do t know any numbers. In order to provide for everyone there needs to be some work based in groups, although much will also be done as a whole class, including numeracy and literacy work.

I think parents are sometimes surprised this happens early on and then a bit disappointed if their child is in a lower group. But if they consider the range of levels that children start school from, they quickly see that some time spent like this helps everyone.

rollonthesummer · 20/10/2014 18:10

So-what did the head actually say? Are they having groups within a class or sets across a year?

Maki79 · 22/10/2014 18:51

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the posters request.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page