Yr3- can't spell

[Scottie04]

Hi
My dd has started Juniors. I had concerns at infants but they kept fobbing me off , saying she was average. However it is very apparent now she can't do any of the spellings she is meant to be able to do for her age! She is getting more anxious and upset as she notices she is different to others! She is losing confidence. The school were going to test for dyslexia, I'm waiting on results. I have spoken to teacher but feel I'm getting fobbed off again. What should I be asking school. I've thought of Ed psychologist, behavioural optometrist etc but I just can't decide what route to start. On reading about Apd, dyslexia and dyspraxia she ticks the boxes for a few.

My ds is in yr3 and spelling is pretty bad.

He can do ok when learning his spelling words, gets full marks etc. however when it comes to key words and everyday words he's all over the place. He still spells out a lot of purely phonically with sounds. So will spell things like hows (house) munki (monkey), scool (school), whent (went), muni (money), chuldrin (children) etc.

We've had sheets and sheets of everyday words to learn and go over. Like spellings, when he learns them he's fine - but when he tries to include them in any writing he forgets it all. His teachers don't seem too concerned though, although we have parents eve tomorrow.

I wouldn't worry to much yet. I do think it's quite common.

I have a dc in year3 and spelling is hit and miss, although to be fair phonics are definitly working.

do you see an improvement at all?

My DC are yr 2 and 3 and spelling is questionable. School also say average.

Mine don't read much. As their reading improves likely their spelling will too- the oldest is already improving as she discovers stories she wants to read (rather than biff and chip!)

Her spelling is awful - she has no understanding of a lot of the phonics she has learnt in the past. She writes like her year 1 sister. She had intervention at infants and is getting extra phonics now but she said it is no different to what she has done previously. I just feel they should be trying some other way of teaching her.
She is very different at school; quiet! At home she will not still, and plays around, just says she can't do it! (It doesn't help her older sister is top for everything)

It's really hard. DS1 struggles with spelling and still spells 'verry', 'burthday', 'hapy', etc. I do worry about it and at home we try to go over some of the 200 most frequently used, but even if he learns them one week the following week he stillmakes the same mistakes. His teachers have always told me that he is doing well in literacy at school, average I suppose, but to me his spelling is poor. We try to do extra work with him at home, just encourage him to write anything (he keeps a diary which is great). Next year if it's still bad we will take a private tutor for one term and see if it helps.

If there are real 'issues' this may need professional intervention.

But there is a book, that might just help clarify Phonics for her. If you look in the MN Book Reviews, "Children's educational books and courses", the Oxford Phonics Spelling Dictionary is an easy to use book, and there is a link to view sample pages from it. It presents things in a novel and entertaining way, and may take some of 'mystery' out of spelling.

How is her reading? I ask because my dd's reading has always been better than her writing. At the start of year 3 her spelling was pretty poor - fine in weekly tests of set words, but poor in other writing. She was really sloppy and would get easy words wrong. She is now in year 4 and there has been a huge improvement. I think doing heaps of reading has helped.

Poor spelling is a massive problem, it's a far bigger problem than poor reading; secondary teachers would probably tell you that 60%+ of their pupils are poor spellers whereas only about 20% are likely to be poor readers.

Poor spelling really isn't a sign of dyslexia, if it were, 60% of the population would be 'dyslexic'! It's more a sign of poor teaching.

Go to this page: www.sounds-write.co.uk/pdf-downloads.aspx scroll down for the 2008 Research Report and read it. It reports on a very large sample of children taught with this particular phonics programme and shows that their spelling skills, measured by standardised spelling tests, are well ahead of those of the generality of children.

This is because spelling and reading are taught together, as they should be in any well taught phonics programme. (I qualify this with 'well taught' because phonics is frequently not well taught.) Children should get intensive practice in reading and spelling words containing the correspondences they are learning, in that way they develop automaticity in correct spelling, mostly through kinaesthetic memory (muscle memory). They also learn to look at words closely so they an use their observational skills to determine if a word they have written 'looks' right and, because they learn to read quickly, they read lots and become familiar with correctly spelled words.

What messes this up is schools which don't teach the two together, which don't give intensive practice in writing and which tolerate poor spelling (I'm not talking about early phonetic attempts in free writing before a child has learned all of the letter/sounds correspondences, I'm talking about when children have supposedly learned all the correspondences and still don't spell well). Which means that children automatise wrong spellings (muscle memory) which leads to the phenomenom of 'gets them all right in a test' (when they're thinking solely about the spelling) but doesn't get them right in creative writing, when, of course, they're not focussing on the spelling but on the piece they are writing and the automatic 'wrong' spelling just flows out!

You will shortly get marsha along to tell you about the iniquities of the English spelling system (if she isn't pounding away already). You may have great sympathy with her views but remember, children have to learn, right now, to spell under the system we've got.

If you have time and small amount of money - try with these books at home:

www.soundfoundationsbooks.co.uk

With the apple and pears you do have to get the teachers bit and the work book. Look at the samples and the placement tests in them to work out which set to start with.

Some others recommend toe to toe but these are better IMO.

I wouldn't stop looking into reasons for her problems - just do this in this in background and not wait and wait for answers while getting fobbed off like we did a bit.

Eldest yr5 and school still isn't keen on testing for dyslexia - though they do all agree there is an issue and eldest has finally got help last two years - after years of not being bad enough to access it. I think we are reaching the point where we'll have to seriously think about private testing - but like you it a bit where do we start.

Is she struggling with reading at all my DC has very good comprehension but listening to read and it's obvious something is up and speed is poor - though self reading is faster.

[As an aside I would love English spelling to be reformed so it was easier or more obviously logical - I just don't see it happening in mine or DC lifetimes]

I know it's not quite what you asked - but the apple and pear stuff is good - lots of repetition of words so they do get remembered and used in everyday writing.

[As an aside I would love English spelling to be reformed so it was easier or more obviously logical - I just don't see it happening in mine or DC lifetimes]

It's a really attractive thought but it has an insupperable difficulty; it would have to be respelled according to a specific accent and there are hundreds of different English accents across the globe. Respelled English might become almost incomprehensible to all but those whose accent it was respelled to.

It might even be nice if phonetic spelling were accepted as 'the norm' as it was before the 19th century but even that comes up against an accent problem, as anyone who has worked with pre 19th century written text can testify. Even in England accents were so different that a travelling southerner might have to use an interpreter when in the north. Imagine bafflingly pronounced words being written instead of spoken and you can perhaps see the problem

Respelled English might become almost incomprehensible to all but those whose accent it was respelled to.

That would indeed by one possible problem as would getting everyone world wide to move to any new system or even different generations in this country. Plus it would means a loss of word origin and history.

Having said that when you look at our alphabet and how Q has no sound if not using it's name so it's always with a U or how many different combination of letters make the same sound in different words - and then try and explain this to my DC - I can't help but dream .

Having said that when you look at our alphabet and how Q has no sound if not using it's name so it's always with a U

Eh?

The letter 'q' spells a /k/ sound, the letter 'u' spells a /w/ sound...together they spell /kw/.

'q' on its own as /k/ becomes increasingly common in our multicultural society as it is used in names of people and things.

Also, what about 'antique', 'mystique', 'boutique'?