Need help with my DS7 and disobedience at school

[PrinceCorum]

My DS7 is a strong-willed lad who also at times has a temper. At home he is sometimes strong willed and we have strategies in place for dealing with poor behaviour, such as removal of privileges like TV or computer time. We are not 'anything goes' parents and try hard to instil a sense of right and wrong while respecting our children at the same time. But in year 2 at primary school and now year 3, our DS7 is struggling with obedience issues. If he doesn't feel like doing a task the teacher has assigned (e.g. because he thinks it's boring) he will make a fuss about doing it and just say "no" to the teacher. If he gets really into a task he will get cross if the teacher tells the class to move onto the next task and he hasn't finished the task he was enjoying.

The Y2 and Y3 teachers both seem somewhat perplexed as to how to deal with him. We have spoken to him and tried to make him see that in school you are expected to toe the line and politely do as teacher says. We certainly don't allow him to always have his own way at home. His Y2 teacher suggested the GP, but I wondered what exactly a GP could do. His Y3 teacher is continuing with a 'Home-School' book which into which he can earn up to 6 stars for good behaviour in the morning and afternoon, and in which the teacher makes a note when a star is not given and the reason why. Trouble is DS7 doesn't see getting a star in this book as much of an incentive, even though I have tried to dream up ways in which the stars can be rewarded when he gets home and that are not about getting all stars or no reward at all. The school and Y3 teacher still seem to be struggling with him, he seems to think the teacher is picking on him unfairly (does a home-school book encourage attention to every little transgression?!), and we don't seem to be getting anywhere. I will most likely have to take time off work and go in and see the teacher, but I thought I'd ask for some advice and opinions here - especially from any primary teachers on the forum. Have you had experience of children like this? He is not contrary all of the time, but clearly the teachers just don't epxect a child to ever say "no" and I guess with 30 odd kids to manage I can see their point.

What can I do from our end and what could/should the school be doing? I'm a bit worried they might suggest the GP again - it seems a bit weird to suggest a mental health issue just because he is strong willed though...

Anyways, would welcome any advice from fellow parents or teachers

I would ask the school to involve the behaviour support team. By year 3, I would expect children without any kind of special educational needs to be generally able to conform and follow adult instructions? The fact that he's still struggling with basic expectations of appropriate behaviour would be a red flag in my school.

How is he doing academically?

Your gp can refer you to camhs which I suspect is what the school are suggesting. Although mental health is what is in the title it includes autism, adhd , oppositional disorders to name a few. By year 3 he should be able to follow basic instructions about class work without it turning into a debate or getting cross. It sounds like he struggles with transitions.

At the end of the day, if there is nothing wrong camhs won't find anything.

I think tiggytape might mean that it "is" unusual for a year 3 to openly defy a teacher, not that it isn't. Apologies if I've misread her/his post though.

Sorry Tiggytape - I misread your original post! It made sense when I read it again just now.

You have my sympathy as this is a tricky situation. My son (also yr3) sounds very similar to yours and has always had difficulty conforming at school. We hoped time would sort it out but it hasn't and we have had to accept that he has some additional needs. We felt school didn't understand him well and understandably didn't have the time or resources to help him cope with his issues. He has also a number of sensory issues that were very hard for him to manage in a busy classroom. We have taken the decision to home educate for a while then ds will be attending a small independent school which is very nurturing, tiny class sizes and where rules are more relaxed.
I am not for a moment suggesting your son has any special needs but do think there is no harm in speaking to your GP or perhaps getting an educational psychologist to observe him in school. What I wouldn't do is just leave it in the hope it will sort itself.
Good luck

Thanks all for your input. To Crusoe - our finances would not allow a solution such as the one you have implemented - we are stuck with state schools and class sizes of 30+

I don't think DS has special needs TBH - as a Psychologist myself I have poured over all of the diagnostic info on things like ASD, ADHD, ODD etc and he doesn't seem to really fit these - he is, essentially, bright and very strong-willed, something which schools, understandably, find it hard to cope with.

This is probably not relevant, but just in case. My DS was similar to yours and often refused to do what he was asked at school. One thing that helped a lot was the teachers giving him direct orders so he fully understood what he needed to do. The teachers tended to ask him if he wanted to do a task. He answered no. But if told firmly to do a task now, no choice implied, he generally did it. Once the teacher changed her strategy, my DS was much happier too!