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Ort question?

16 replies

Sleepswithbutterflies · 03/10/2014 16:23

Ds is blue bookband (year 1, aged 5.4) and has books which vary from stage 2 to stage 4.
They are all ort.

This week's is Kipper's Idea, stage 3 but blue book band apparently.

Is that usual?

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HaplessHousewife · 03/10/2014 17:02

Our school uses all sorts of different books (a lot of Big Cat) but my DD was on purple and got one ORT level 8 and one level 9. The school had put purple stickers on both of them so I think the ORT levels don't always match up exactly.

tobysmum77 · 03/10/2014 17:42

we had ort stage 3 or 4 in blue band, but don't remember 2. In Green its 4 or 5.

I have no idea how they level them tbh but am pretty sure it isn't an exact science.....

catkind · 03/10/2014 18:39

There's an old classification of ORT books into stages, which predates phonics. The books have also been reclassified into colour bands post phonics. Because they now learn the skills in different orders, some books are now classified "easier" and some "harder" within what was originally the same level.

Sleepswithbutterflies · 03/10/2014 20:23

Thanks.
Ds's school seem to be following this:
stmarysrcmidd.rochdale.sch.uk/files/files/ortbookbands.pdf

The books that are stage 2 on there but banded blue are the ones we've had.

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HarveySchlumpfenburger · 03/10/2014 20:49

That's not quite right catkind. Bookbanding isn't anything to do with phonics.

ORT, like many schemes pre-dates the book banding guide. It has it's own progression through stages that is mostly based on the introduction of different key words at each stage. The book banding guide was produced to help schools that use more than one scheme to group books of a similar level from different schemes. It doesn't use vocabulary but things like number of words per page, length of book or complexity of the story instead. This means that each bookband can contain books from 3-4ORT levels and each ORT level usually contains books from several different bands.

catkind · 03/10/2014 20:54

Ah okay, I stand corrected.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 03/10/2014 21:01

It's bloody complicated. As much as some phonics schemes have been written according to and banded by publishers I think the bookbanding guide explicitly excludes the banding of phonic books because it's a completely different system.

tobysmum77 · 04/10/2014 07:43

well that doesn't fit with dd's school. The house sale books are blue but yellow in that list. .... and I'm certain because dd was never on yellow and we read both! Most are the same though. As I said I am pretty convinced it isnt an exact science - we had red books that were harder than some Blue.

diamondage · 04/10/2014 11:57

ORT themselves have turned it into an exact science - this is their own chart which sets out how ORT levels contain books that run across several national colour bands.

Many schools have not organised ORT books following this chart, in part due to the fact that it means the story books are no longer always consecutive. Even Read Chest hasn't organised ORT books according to their book band difficulty (i.e. by colour).

However I believe the free Oxford Owl e-books are arranged correctly, according to this chart.

Sleepswithbutterflies · 04/10/2014 12:24

Thanks - yes that is how they seem to be organised at ds's school.

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toomuchicecream · 04/10/2014 12:32

Now I thought that the reason behind all this is that the original Biff & Chip books pre-date phonics as tool taught to children to help them read. They go back to earlier days when look & say and sight words were used more commonly. When everyone started to teach phonics, there were books which were previously considered easy (because they didn't have many words in them and were quite repetitive) which are now considered to be comparatively harder because they contain words which contain phonemes that children won't yet have learnt, so they can't use their phonic knowledge to decode them.

Obviously schools had spent a lot of money on the old ORT books and ORT, being good suppliers who didn't want to upset schools, produced the list linked above which re-organised the books into book bands so that they could more closely reflect the order in which children now learn sounds.

as tobysmum says, it isn't an exact science. Schools don't have to follow the book banding scheme and they can organise their reading books however they want to. The new primary curriculum makes it clear that phonics should be the only method used to teach children to read. However, few schools can afford to throw away all their old home reading books and buy completely new ones. So in my experience, most have taken a fairly pragmatic approach and used resources like the list from ORT to re-organise/re-band their books to make them fit a scheme they weren't originally designed for.

For some books this isn't a problem. For other books, it isn't great but it's close enough to justify it when the budget is tight. And for other books, the only place suitable for them is the bin, in my opinion.

Floppy the Hero is a good example of this. Originally a stage 2 book with 1 simple sentence on each page. Trouble is, it refers through out to the fire engine in the pictures. If a child had been taught to use clues from the pictures (as they used to be) then that wasn't a problem. But the new curriculum specifically prohibits this as it detracts from the children using their phonic knowledge. Fire and engine are not decodable until the children are well into phase 5 phonics ie a lot further on than blue band, which is where ORT now place the book. I would also expect a blue level book to have more than 1 simple sentence per page, so it's both too hard and too easy at the same time!

So I'm afraid it comes back to the old chestnut of scarce resources and schools having to make the best use they can of the limited money they have. In my school, all the reading books were re-banded using guides produced by ORT and the other publishers (we have home reading books from a wide range of publishers/schemes). Gradually I am spending a couple of hundred pounds a year so I can replace the outdated books over time. Each year when I get a new batch of books in I can take out the worst of the old ones. But if I threw out all non-phonic books, I simply wouldn't have enough for the children to be able to change their books each day.

Incidentally, the guided reading books we use in school are all fully phonic, so when children are being actively taught, the resources are up to date. It's just the quantity of home reading books we need can't all be replaced in one go. If anyone would like to give me a couple of grand....

Sleepswithbutterflies · 04/10/2014 12:55

This is why I've never especially liked ort books.
Red band books contain words such as 'library' and 'circus' yet they only have about 5 words on a page. So yes too hard and too easy.

We've had floppy the hero. Ds's school banded it blue. Ds used picture clues for sure. He read it easily but he wouldn't have been able to decide fire engine.

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HarveySchlumpfenburger · 04/10/2014 13:51

That list from ORT uses the original bookbanding levels for ORT which predate the Rose review by about 8 years. It really does have nothing to do with phonics or how reading is now taught. If it did they wouldn't have a single book from one of their non-decodable schemes banded below about green/orange.

diamondage · 04/10/2014 21:10

I agree the revised ORT banding has nothing to do with phonics. This is because the national book bandings of lilac to lime has nothing to do with phonics either. The national book band colours come from PM benchmark (I believe, am prepared to be corrected) but certainly at the time the colour bands were introduced the vast majority of books were look and say and the favoured method was mixed methods so using picture clues was AOK.

Phonic books have sort of been squeezed in alongside look and say books instead of look and say being scrapped for the first 6 levels or so.

With the new statutory requirements that should change, but I won't be holding my breath - I expect to continue seeing posts about non phonic reading books coming home in reception / year 1 for some time yet!

mrz · 05/10/2014 06:33

ORT stages pre date the book banding system so when book banding was introduced it used a different set of criteria so encompassed a number of stages. ORT stages firmly besed on whole word reading method whereas book banding uses mixed methods and loosely based on reading recovery ... Unfortunately phonics doesn't fit comfortably in either system but has been twisted and squeezed to a rough fit.

mrz · 05/10/2014 07:07

The most common book banding system found in schools Lilac -Lime is based on Reading Recover (Institute of Education) the extended book bands sometimes used in KS2 is based on the Cliff Moon system

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