Am I being unreasonable or is this a lot of extra work for a 6 year old?

[lifebook14]

Not really sure what to make of this so thought I would ask the wise people on here.

Teacher asked for a word today and said DS had been selected as a small group of children who needed some extra support with phonics/writing. Yes I agree he does and am happy for him to have some extra support.

However this support will be 3 extra 30 min lessons on Mon, Tue and Wed morning. So instead of starting school at 8.50 he will now have to get there at 8.10.

It just feels like a lot of extra work. He gets tired easily from school and an extra 30 mins on the day for 3 days a week seems an awful lot. Even if he did kumon or had a tutor it would only be for 1hour once a week. Also it's going to be really hard getting up earlier in the morning as he is not a morning person and likes to sleep in as long as possible. I'm dreading the thought of getting him up early for phonics on a cold, dark winters morn.

Apparently the lessons will go on until they feel the child doesn't need them anymore so potentially could be a term or all year!!

Don't get me wrong I am grateful for the help (although it feels a bit cynical that this is in the run up to SATS) but it just seems like such an extra burden on a young child.

Or is this normal and I'm just being PFB!?

Capsium, exactly, there may be reasons other than the 'obvious' why tiredness might be an issue. and as i say, one reason may be that the child finds school very hard because of their lackl of phonic knowledge and therefore poor reading. Which is why, in any converation with a parent, I would be saying 'Let's check out the basics like food and sleep first. Then if those are all OK, we will investigate the more 'specialised' underlying reasons for tiredness alongside the phonics interventions - because the latter are small group sessions and your child has, essentially, a once and once only opportunity to start those phonics sessions from the beginning'

But on here some people are saying the child should just be having "better" teaching in class. One poster even says that school should take the wait and see approach and the child may be top of the class next year. Many are approving the school's approach, but some posters are saying the school is wrong and want to tell them to teach / intervene differently - that is what I said I despair at. Arranging additional out of main school hours sessions is not an easy option, so a school would only do it if they felt it was the only option.

teacher But only, in consultation with the OP, I hope. Her concerns are legitimate and should be fully considered. If the intervention does go ahead for her child at the very least his progress overall should, very carefully, be monitored.

IsItFriday Your choice to despair. Parents are individuals, children are individuals. All have individual opinions, concerns and needs. A good teacher does not dismiss them out of hand.

Obviously in consultation with the OP. It is a requirement with iour interventions that we speak to the parent before it starts, send them details of the intervention, and keep them up to date with progress every couple of weeks - more often with all interventions that require parents to do some reinforcemenrt work at home, those usually have a liaison book that goes to and fro each day.

[I am simultaneously o a thread which taljks about the wrking hours of teachers, and why primary teachers work longer hours than their secondary colleagues - all the above for every child I or my TA intervenes with does add a fair amount to my hours each week]

No, but when they are bending over backwards to try and support children and the parents just find fault it makes us wonder why we are spending valuable time on it (the answer is because we want what is best for the children - but parents sometimes don't make it easy to deliver that)

Caopsium,

My understanding is that the OP's concerns are:

• Her child gets up quite late in the mornings, and she would prefer him not to get up earlier.

• Child is already tired after schoool, and she is worried about the effect of the additional half hour of work easch day.

Both of which are reasonable to discuss in the context of the rest of the child's life, e.g. bedtimes et al. What I haven't seen from the OP (apologies if i have missed it) is if the academic concerns around her child are valid - ie if they passed the Phonics screening, and their reading and writing levels. If her chiold passed the screening check with flying colours, and is already a 1a or 2c reader and writer, then this might be a sledgehammer to crack a nut. If, on the iother hand, the child failed the phonics check, and if this is coupled with reading and writing levels of 1b or below, then the school's concern and provision of a high-intensity, high profile early morning intervention seems to me much more justified, and the discussion needs to be about how to manage the potential 'downsides' of this approach for the child, to balance against the obvious 'upsides' in terms of their academic progress.

It shouldn't be easy though. Because it teaching and learning is complex. This is why teaching is a profession. Hence the need for consultation and joint commissioning of interventions.

teacher yes we are talking a lot of hypotheticals here. The OP might not even have all information regarding progress. This is why there needs to be more dialogue.

Is it only the child who doesn't want to get up "early" or perhaps equally his mum? School starts at 7.45am in a lot of countries, and 30 mins is not very long - an extra hour or more might impact on concentration - I'd hazard that missing outdoor time at playtime or lunch would impact more though.

If OP can afford to pay a tutor at a more convenient time that seems a viable alternative, rather than refusing needed help because of not wanting to get up.

capsium, teaching and learning is complex. But that doesn't mean to say shouldn't be moving towards a much more evidenced based profession and looking at what works and what doesn't or doesn't work as well.

You talked about the medicalisation of education earlier. Medicine is part art and science too. There's evidence and tests and screening checks, but there's a certain amount of art in deciding which tests to run, interpreting the results and deciding on the best course of treatment. All of which is backed up by more evidence. There's no reason that model couldn't work in education to provide better outcomes for all children.

The school isn't wrong to offer this intervention to the children it thinks need it, including the OP. It is up to the OP, armed with all the information to make an informed decision about what she thinks is right for her child. If she genuinely thinks her DS will be too tired and won't cope, then she needs to talk to the teacher about that and see if there is a way forward.

Indeed MrTumbles. Or perhaps before wasting spending money on a tutor which would only offer what the school is offering for free, both the OP and the DS could invest in lumie clocks to see if that helped with the mornings in the winter.

I think I need a lumie clock rookiemater, please tell me more.

I was slightly joking isit - but here you go www.lumie.com/collections/light-therapy-waking/products/bodyclock-starter-30. I'm not saying that it's a cure all, but may be helpful if they are struggling to get up in the morning and probably costs less than a couple of sessions of private tuition.

I probably need to walk away from this thread. I'm finding myself getting a bit wound up by it !

Thanks - joking or not I need all the help I can get in the winter mornings! Maybe its my age .

I agree about feeling wound up; off to find leftover apple crumble and cream from lunch before I start some school work instead of MN-ing!

capsium art and science are separate things (notice the and) but both are required in teaching.

[I am simultaneously o a thread which taljks about the wrking hours of teachers, and why primary teachers work longer hours than their secondary colleagues - all the above for every child I or my TA intervenes with does add a fair amount to my hours each week]

Sorry, I am going totally off topic here, but I just wanted to say that the teachers at my sons primary school work extremely long days 8-5.30 most days and then extra time marking and planning at home. They are fabulous teachers and they go above the call of their actual duties. If they offered to help my son out of the usual school hours I would be immensely grateful and my main concern would be the impact it would have on their own lives and their own children. Knowing that they are giving up some of their time before school to specifically help my child would make me feel very lucky and very grateful.

Miss Unreasonable you need a new name - that is one if the most reasonable views on this thread.

I am usually the most unreasonable person on threads that I post on
I blame my sons fabulous teachers for making me reasonable in this instance.

I wish that I had typed my post better, had I known that someone was going to quote it! I have a VERY dodgy keyboard!]

I am struggling to empathise with a parent who when offered 1.5 hours a week of additional targeted support for their child, with no adverse impact on the normal school day, is complaing about having to get up earlier and considering kumon.

Op, you may not be aware that kumon is not taught by qualified teachers. It is formulaic, repetitive, boring for children and expensive. I think you'd be mad to turn down this opportunity from school. They're trying to help your son and it's reasonable to assume that the school knows what it's doing. Reading ability is so important for accessing the curriculum. You could be really letting your dc down by not allowing him to have the help he needs

Art and science is necessary within any professions that deal with people, tbh. Medicine is applied science. The art is in building a rapport with the patient and convincing them that you are acting in their best interests. Similarly, teaching requires knowledge (science) and the art of motivation and encouragement.

Yes, I KNOW they are being taught the old curriculum in Y2 this year and being assessed on it, but nonetheless, they will need to be up to speed with the new curriculum by the time they enter Y3... won't they? How will a Y3 teacher teach the new curriculum to these children next year otherwise?

The Y3 teacher will be playing catch up just as they are this year as are the Y4 & Y5 teachers

Rafa and I do not dispute any of that. However there is no evidence that this is the right intervention, as yet, for this child. All I am advocating is further dialogue and consideration because the OP has specific concerns.

mrz but teaching is one thing. The question is, can you do both, as well as those people who specialise in one? Or should you consider advice, sometimes?

Mme I get it that you are in total support of teachers. Do you work in education by any chance? I do support teachers but I am not in total awe of them. Teachers are not infallible, they are human.

Although some are very dedicated, some are not. There are also many political motivations within education. Schools want to be seen to be proactively doing something about poor results, which means there can be a danger of making knee jerk decisions, instead of fully considering a child's individual needs. OP said this was the first she had heard of her child struggling, so this could be a knee jerk reaction to the results of the Phonic Screening. To be quite frank, I would am surprised that serious problems were not picked up and communicated to the parent sooner, especially with the ongoing assessments that should be taking place within schools.

The only choice in life, IMO is to be honest and speak up if you have genuine concerns. Parent's hunches are often right. They know their child very well, and are the constant through the years, their concerns reach further than the next academic year. It is quite right that there should be genuine dialogue and consultation between parents and teachers.