Concerns over a boy at DS1's primary school

[mandbaby]

My DS1 (4.11) has just started in reception at primary school. He absolutely loves it and the teacher has said some lovely things about him already. DS2 (3.3) has just started the pre-school there and I'm 39 weeks pg with DC3. The school is a 2 minute walk away (so super convenient - especially when heavily pregnant and soon with a newborn) and not only that it's been awarded Outstanding by Ofsted for the last 3 visits. Perfect.

However, there is one boy in DS1's class who has latched on to him and just wont leave him alone. Last week, the teacher took me to one side to tell me that the boy had punched DS1 in the face "several times" - completely unprovoked, and DS1 didn't retaliate. She said she saw the whole thing, apologised to me profusely and explained that there were "some issues" concerning the boy (she sort of hinted that he MAY have some learning/social difficulties) and that the boy was removed from the classroom and dealt with. She added that she was so glad that DS1 hadn't been wearing his glasses that day as she's certain they would have been broken by the power of the boy's punches. sad

Since then, DS1 has talked about other issues concerning the same boy (how he's pushed DS1 out of line whilst queuing for lunch, etc, how the boy has had to go "to the office" due to other poor behaviour in class. We've told DS1 that he must tell a grown up whenever the boy does "naughty".

This morning, whilst we were all on the playground waiting for the bell to ring, the boy made a beeline for DS1 as soon as he entered the playground, and started putting his hands in DS1s face and generally winding him up. DS1 was polite (as much as a 4YO can be) and asked to be left alone. The boy then tried taking DS2's cuddly toy off him and was following them both around, generally getting in their faces and winding them up. DS1 and DS2 tried their best to get away from the boy, but the boy obviously just sees it as part of the game. The boy then started to get more incessant, poking, pulling and smacking at DS1. DS1, who by this time had clearly had enough, then fought back. Once or twice prior to this, I'd asked DS1 to come and stand with me, but he wouldn't. He wanted to run around the playground with all the other children (totally understandable, right?). But when it reached this point, I ignored his tantrums and insisted he stand in the line with me until it was time to go into school. Only when DS1 started to stand up for himself did the boy's mother intervene. Prior to this, when she'd watched me go over on more than one occasion to ask DS1 to come and stand with me, she said and did nothing, despite her son CONSTANTLY being in the face of my boys.

One afternoon last week when I collected my boys from school/pre-school, the boy ran up to DS1 saying "hey! where do you think you're going!" DS1 turned around and said, quite assertively, "Away from YOU!". DS1 is normally very sociable and has never had trouble making friends so to see him at the age of 4 already making his mind up that this is a boy he doesn't want to be friends with was quite a surprise. That's how much the boy is obviously bothering him.

My hubby, who was already annoyed by the situation concerning this boy, is now telling me he wants us to change schools to one that's two miles across town. So instead of a nice 2 minute walk to an outstanding school around the corner, he wants me to get in the car (which, in a week or two will be with a newborn baby as well as DS1 and DS2) and drive to the other side of town where there's no guarantee that there wont be another boy (or girl!) just like the one that is constantly bothering DS1 now.

I mentioned to DS1s teacher this morning that there had already been some "uneasiness" with the boys on the playground today. She then said that her and the Teaching Assistant had noticed that DS1 and the boy were like "magnets" and drawn to one another. This may be the case. But from what I've seen, DS1 has tried to do his best to steer clear of the boy, but the boy wont give up.

What would you do?

How long would you give it before taking action such as moving school?

What options do we have?

Speak to the teacher again or the Head. You need to be reassured that they really do have this in hand.

I would not change school, but would make a nuisance of myself until \i was confident that both the boy and your DS are both getting what they need from the school.

Don't change schools - you're right there might well be a kid very similar in the new school.

I reckon it might be worth you escalating it a bit to make the point, so ask for a meeting to which both you and your DH go. I'd keep a diary of incidents and take that with you too. Being hit at all isn't on, but being hit so hard that it could have broken your DS's glasses is pretty shocking. I'd ask for a transparent action plan (helps as you can hold them to account if it isn't followed). You can be v.smiley about it all, so non confrontational, but ask for something which both boys understand. I know they're only 4, but they'll get it if it's simple. So for example your son could be told that if there's a problem he's to go straight to a teacher/ TA. They could both get rewarded for playing nicely (stickers, or something). The other boy could know that if he hits your son there's some form of instant punishment - e.g. his parents are told/ he loses a bit of playtime. There's so much they could/ should be doing. Don't put up with it.

Do not move school. Do work with the school to resolve your concerns. They need to help the boy and also make sure your DS1 is progressing and happy. It's early days so good luck

You'd be mad to move schools without even trying to discuss this properly with the staff at his current school.

Thanks for the advice - it's very good advice. I think I will escalate it, like you said, in a very friendly, smiley non-confrontational way.

I really don't want to move schools, and don't feel that (at this time) it's the right thing to do.

I will start a diary of "events" and insist that the school is doing something.

I just never wanted to be one of those parents who is constantly pestering the school!

Don't move school! You need to keep talking to the teacher - I would make it quite clear that your ds is upset by this child, and school should be aware and watch carefully.

It is very early days, and the school should be able to deal with this.

It sounds like the child may have ADHD and possibly some other issues. I would take this opportunity to teach your ds1 how to have some boundaries at the same time as being kind and polite. It was very rude to say, "Away from YOU" to a child who is basically trying to be his friend, albeit in an annoying way (even the hitting can just be an inappropriate way of getting attention) and often involuntary. I feel for the Mum too. She is probably just getting her head around the fact he has issues and working out what they are, and how much she needs to intervene, what is normal behaviour for a child his age and what is not.

Trust me, it will be the other child who struggles through school, is otracised by kids and constantly told off by teachers/ isolated etc, so please try and be as patient with him as possible. It sounds like the school are very good, so just keep communication open with them, but please try and see it from the other child/ other parent's point of view too. It is a nightmare for them, and probably will be for his entire school life.

Ask the teacher to keep watching them because you find it hard to believe that you DS is drawn to the boy and you think it is one sided.

Ask the school to support your son if he doesn't want to play with the other boy.

Incidentally, if the hit was hard enough to break his glasses, I'd be surprised if there wasn't some bruising.

I agree with the others and for the same reason, you could just encounter a similar problem at that school.

Try to remember that your child is no angel either, if I'd asked mine to come and stand with me on the playground, then that is exactly what I would expect them to do. Agree to that although this is frustrating you need to help your child be calm and polite, just obviously not a punchbag either.

Do keep a record. We had a similar issue and although we talked to the teacher a lot, it wasn't resolved until our DS had been hit, again, and we decided to write to the head, explaining what had happened and asking what they were going to do to ensure it didn't happen again. We cc'd the board of governors and asked for a reply within 7 days. The head saw us the same day and it's never happened since.

If waiting to go into school is an issue, could you leave home a little later?

Excellent post Merry, just what I was thinking.

Thanks Hammer. I have been on the other side of the fence (minus the hitting, but a lot of other misdjudged 'friendship' cues) so I know how that other Mum must be feeling. In my experience, kids like this whose behaviour is often beyond their control, get far more stick than kids who are mean and bullying verbally (and are well aware of it) because they are clever. Not saying your kid is like that OP, but schools tend to deal much better with 'hitting' than children constantly putting other children down in small ways (whether that is laughing at their scarf or never passing them the ball, or laughing when they show some work they have worked hard on.

What Merry said.

It does sound like the other child has something extra going on. My DS struggles a lot with his behaviour at school (Y1 now) and has only just has a diagnosis of ASD.

It doesn't help to label the behaviour "naughty" btw. DS isn't being naughty when he hits or whatever, he is overwhelmed and frightened.

And absolutely, at 5, many of the other children know exactly how to wind up DS verbally so that he then lashes out and is the one who gets into trouble, even though they started it.

So, protect your DC, get the school to make sure that they keep him safe, and teach him some appropriate responses.

Due to the changes with SEN that came in from 1st September it is really important that all incidents are recorded. It sounds like the child in the class may well have some behavioural issues. The school will be keeping a record of incidents to provide evidence that further interventions are required. I am sure that the school will want to engage with you on this matter and I would recommend that you make an appointment to see the headteacher. Keep a list of incidents yourself and take that with you when you meet the HT.

My advice come from the position of being the chair of governors at an Infant school.

And absolutely, at 5, many of the other children know exactly how to wind up DS verbally so that he then lashes out and is the one who gets into trouble, even though they started it. that's so sad but my DF's DS gets this all of the time. I really feel for him.

I wouldn't move schools either. This sounds a pretty run of the mill situation that the school will have dealt with before.

It is interesting that the school say they are drawn to each other, to me that implies they think they can be as bad as each other. You don't want your son labelled, talk to him about how he reacts.

He didn't listen and do as he was told after you'd told him twice to come to you - do you think he is like that with the teachers? Also, it sounds like he was running around with the other child, the other child could easily have thought he was joining in. People can't chase you if you aren't running. Yes they can follow you, so let them follow you to a grown up and tell the grown up the other child won't leave you alone. Also, you let the child take your smaller DCs toy and let him annoy your DS with you there, giving your DS the message that the situation is ok. I would try some loud parenting e.g. DS wants to run alone, why don't you find someone else who wants to play? DS2 is very small and I don't make him share his special toys, let's give it back (whilst taking toy back). There is no way I would let someone else smack my DS whilst I was there, I would get inbetween and say 'smacking is not nice, you need to go back to your mum'.

As everyone has said, don't move, and if anything perhaps it is the other child who ought to be moved!

As a TA for twenty years, Yes, for some unfathomable reason children can be 'drawn' to unsuitable 'companions'.

I have known boys like the offending one, and they have sometimes had VERY SERIOUS things going on in their lives.

But the school needs to be more 'on top' of the situation; keep a note of ALL incidents, as future evidence.

I think you def need to be escalating this with the school in a nice way so your DS doesn't feel he's just being left to deal with another child in his face all the time.

But I do agree with petalunicorn. Some loud parenting and keeping your children by you when waiting would give a clear message to them that you are looking out for them and this other boy's behaviour is not ok and hopefully will make it clear to the school and the other parent that your DS is being bugged and isn't seeking this other child out. From the outside it's easy to interpret it as your DS is joining in if they're running around together.

I suggested to DS that he came and stand with me, but he wanted to play with his brother and other friends. I didn't see a problem with this as why should my DS have HIS fun spoilt for the sake of one other whose mother apparently doesn't see a problem.

Yesterday, I asked the boy to not smack and I imagine I was within earshot of his mother (who said/did nothing). Only when my DS had clearly had enough and started to push back did she go over and say something to her son.

No, I don't believe that teachers have any problem getting my DS to respond to their requests. The opposite, in fact. DS came home last week with the "star pupil of the week" badge and the teacher has commented on how he is a delight to have in the classroom.

Last week when the teacher saw the boy smacking my DS (her exact words were "punching him over and over in the face") she said that DS behaved in an exemplary manner - he didn't retaliate, he didn't cry.

Yesterday I asked DS if there had been any issues and he replied that the boy had pushed him once again out of the line and that he had also smacked the teacher and the teacher had to take him out of the classroom. I spoke to DS and suggested to him that if the boy annoyed/upset/hurt him, he must be polite and calmly ask the boy to leave him alone, and then tell a teacher. His reply to me was "but he doesn't understand". My DS is well aware that he needs to be calm and mindful, even when his buttons are being pushed by another child. He even said to me this morning at breakfast time, when I was trying to remind him what he was to do/not to do, he said "I'm not mean to him, I just want him to leave me alone".

This morning, once again on the playground, the boy made a beeline for my boys (who were once again happily playing with their other friends).

I told my son before we left the house that if the boy comes near him (at any time during the day), he's not to run off as the boy could see this as a game and may not understand that he's trying to get away from him. The moment the boy appeared on the playground this morning, my DS came straight over to me, but the boy wasn't deterred. He just came right over and once again had his face in my son's face. His mother just stood there, again, doing nothing. If my DS was doing this, I'd be straight over there.

It's our first parents evening next week and I worry that the whole time will be spent discussing some other boy.

p.s. Merry there were marks on DS's face from the smacks last week. (not bruises, but marks). As I said, the teacher was SO apologetic and told me twice that she was just so thankful that he hadn't been wearing his glasses. At the time, she didn't tell me which boy was responsible - she just said that he was 100% to blame and that DS had done nothing at all to provoke it. He was simply playing on a leappad and the boy came up and demanded it from DS then started to "punch him repeatedly".

My son is definitely no angel. (Whose is?!) But I feel like his first two weeks of school have been less enjoyable for him than they should have been because of this one boy who, despite teacher intervention, is so far not staying away from my DS.

I will keep a log and email the school to request a separate meeting.

I'm starting to feel a little bit about the teacher talking about a kid "punching him over and over again'. It's not really good language (very emotive) for a teacher to use to another parent. Of course that would upset you and make you dislike the other little boy (even if she didn't mention a name at the time, now you know who it is). That was terrible management of that situation and clearly the teacher was 'taking sides' which is not going to be helpful for the other boy, or indeed for you.

Your ds sounds lovely, mandbaby. My ds2 would be like this, partly because he knows how he ought to behave and partly because he is capable of behaving like this. My ds1 would be more like the other boy, though less aggressive. They have been brought up in exactly the same way, but the way schools can sometimes deal with 'problem' children is appalling, a huge lack of empathy or helpfulness. I really hope this little boy's mum gets clued up or the school start dealing with it in a better way.

In terms of parent's evening. You could arrange a chat about the boy for after parent's evening, so that parent's evening is about your ds.

how is a teacher supposed to describe this using non emotive language though? If one child has been repeatedly hit by another, that is fairly brutal and it is not a management failure to tell the parent what has happened IMO.

Using 'punch over and over again' instead of 'hit several times' is emotive language to me.

You know what I think your ds had the perfect reaction the first time when the boy asked what he was doing.
Personally I would te the boy to just stop his behaviour when they are waiting to come in. By staying silent, you are showing by your actions that very little can be done to stop the child from being annoying. Surely, even if you don't wasn't to intervene between your ds1 and the child, you should go it for your fs2 who us younger?

And YY to talking to teacher again and ask for a action plan to be put in place as well as what they expect your ds to do in such a situation. This boy needs to learn that if someone is saying 'leave me alone' or 'I don't want to play with you' then he should do so.
And your ds will be assertive saying so.
From what you are saying, it us already very clear that the teacher and the school know there is a problem. Having a SN of any type doesn't mean that other children should put up with said behaviour. They need to be protected by the school. And it's up to school to implement the right support.

A last word, even if the school feels he needs specific support, eg a 1-1 with him, it might take a while to happen. If this us the case, you need to know temporary measures will be put in place too.

And YY. Parents evening should be all about your ds and how he is settling in. Make it clear to the teacher and arrange another meeting.