Unhelpful teacher in Reception

[Kmum31]

I had a problem picking up my DD from Reception today as I found him crying and lying on the floor and was told that he did not want to listen and sit down with other children so they put him in the corner. I thought he was naughty as he used to like pushing the boundaries but at home when he calmed down he.said that he does not know how to sit with crossed legs and when he couldn't do it at school they sat him in the corner. I am really angry as it took me to teach him how to cross his legs about 2 minutes and he was really upset as he said he wasn't naughty and did not understand the whole situation.

Kmum I know you saw that. Is it possible that he was asked to sit quietly on a spot (i.e. time out) and couldn't do that, so ended up crying on the floor instead?

If he is able to comply with instructions, the easiest option is for him to do that, then the discipline policy will hopefully be pretty irrelevant to you both.

If not, you could ask for a 10 minute chat with the teacher to talk about how it's settling in and check out what the discipline policy is in practice.

If you don't like the discipline policy, you may have to consider moving to another school...

I will have a chat with the teacher and I hope it's just a little hiccup as after a first day he said that the school is great and I want him to want to go there rather than make him to go.

Did he go to nursery Op? If so did he not learn stuff like that there?

He did go to the nursery and was really good there. There was no complaints about him not listening and when he was naughty it was all about running in the class then we was sat on a time out but first they have always explained why and he was fine after no tantrums what so ever.

How about giving the school a chance and being willing to believe that they just might know what they are doing.
Sitting in the corner (which is probably where there is another carpet, so it was about sitting apart, rather than in the corner) was probably simply a removing him from the situation, where he refused to do what he was asked and was disturbing the others. It probably wasn't presented as a punishment nor done in a humiliating way. It won't just have been about an inability to cross his legs. You need to appreciate that a 4 year old is not usually able to give a totally accurate description of events and may not have full understanding of why they were moved, even when it is explained.
So yes, he probably was misbehaving. If the teacher needs to talk with the whole class, do you think your child should remain in their midst preventing their learning? I'm sure he was given help and warnings before being moved.
Yes yes to you working on helping him learn to sit still and also about the importance of following instructions. Do you expect him to follow instructions and tell him about consequences if he doesn't, and then do you follow through with those consequences? Perhaps he is unfamiliar with clear boundaries. Reception is partly about learning the exist in a group environment and that we have to do as we are told and that everyone cannot be doing their own thing at certain times.
It is early days and he will learn. However you need to support the school. The worst thing you can do is to undermine the school by telling him the teacher was mean, or you disagree with what they did (even if you do disagree) because he needs to know there is a united front and you will back the school. If you don't do this, you will undermine their authority and he will find it even harder to meet expectations.
As for the crying and laying on the floor, I can see it is upsetting to see your child like that. However, there is a lot of crying in reception. 4 year olds get easily upset, but get over it quickly too. You need to do the same.

Please give the school and the teacher a chance to explain what actually happened. I very much doubt it was a case of just he couldn't cross his legs. It is much more likely that he was being disruptive and refusing to sit still and wriggling around possibly annoying the other children.

However harsh it sounds if a teacher lets this go at the start of term it is harder for the children to learn to sit quietly and as still as they can and they start missing out on learning because they are fidgeting or sat out because they are being disruptive. As much as it sounds harsh to make him sit out, what about the rest of the class who are sitting waiting for him to behave?

I would have a quiet word with the teacher about how you're concerned that he's finding it hard to sit quietly and you'd love it if the teacher/TAs could help/support him to learn how to so he's not missing out. Going in there all guns blazing about being unfair or unreasonable will only make the relationship with his teacher very difficult for the next year.

There is never a need to send a child (who has been at school for two weeks BTW) to sit in the corner and leave them crying there. Never. No matter what they have done.

ChocolateWombat just to clear this out it wasn't him who told me that we didn't want to cross his legs it was the teacher he said to me that he couldn't do because he didn't know how. Probably he got frustrated and acted out but in the situation when a child says he can't do something I think the teacher should explain to him or show him what to do not to put him in the corner and let him think that if you can't do something and not because you don't want but because you don't know how you will be put in the corner. I will not make a big deal out of it but will let the teacher know how the whole situation made me feel.

Okay,well I hope you are able to have a calm, constructive conversation with the teacher and develop a positive relationship for the rest of the year.
It is such early days. I would just think carefully about what you will say. And if you find that there continue to be issues with him being in trouble, perhaps you will consider if it might be him, not the teacher at the root of it.

I'm sure you don't want to be a parent who cannot believe her child ever does anything wrong, or who thinks her small child is always entirely accurate in reporting events, and everyone else is in the wrong. Just be aware that unless you are very careful in that conversation with the teacher, you will come across as that kind of person.

Hope your son has a better week next week. As you said, he has been happy and enjoyed himself generally and I'm you're he will forget he felt upset.

trollsworth your post is exactly what I was saying about be sure of your facts. I have been caught out a few times with similar stories. I now go in and say did this happen , did that happen, can I ask what exactly happened? Then oh my son said ....

The transition from nursery to reception can be a difficult one for some children. the expectations are so much higher.

Excellent posts by ChocolateWombat

Could he really not cross his legs? Even when he saw all the other children do it?

I'm surprised a child has managed to get to school age with no idea what sitting cross legged means, especially if they have been to nursery.

Time outs are going to be quite common as a sanction in reception classes I think.

Hollie84 as strange as it sounds he didn't know how to sit with legs crossed and when I showed him how to do it he was really proud of himself and said that now he won't be put in the corner because he knows how to do it. At the nursery when they were asked to sit I think the nursery practicioners didn't mind the way.the children were sitting as far as they were quiet.and listened to them.

I find this very hard to believe.

There must be more to it. my daughter's reception teacher used to send children to the other classroom to calm down if they have seriously misbehaved. ie. bitten another child. They didn't have time out as such. Generally children were seperated after fighting to give children time to calm down.

For minor misbehaviour there is usually lots of warnings. Schools usually try to encourage good behaviour by rewarding stickers rather than punishing minor things like not sitting cross legged.

I am surprised that a child without learning difficulties needs to be taught how to sit cross legged. No one ever taught me or my classmates and 35 years ago most of us did not attend nursery.

ReallyTired well it's hard for me to belive that you remember what you did at 4 years old. My child does not have learning difficulties if that is what you want to suggedt. If you don't have any advice but only criticism than thank you very much for your participation in this conversation. Everyone else gave me something to think about and choose the best possible way to deal with this situation and I am very thankful. But to be judged and to suggest that my child has learning difficulties it's very harsh and unnecessary.

Beware of little boys bearing tall tales!!

I agree with all the others saying go in calmly.

My experience is that sometimes at school your child may get disciplined for something that seems unfair to you (as well as him).

For me, it was when DS (who still struggles to put his hand up rather than shouting out answers) said something quietly when they had a fill-in teacher. She thought he said "she's pathetic" (when we were pretty sure he didn't even know that word) when he told me he had used a plausible alternative phrase that did not have the same offence factor.

But...he shouldn't have been talking at all, so...

Some children do find it hard to cross their legs, especially if they are tubby or have been in the habit of sitting with legs in a W shape.

Sitting crosslegged requires a high degree of coordination really tired - I can't do it at all and frequently got into trouble at infant school (then not a problem until going to baby groups...), ds mastered it shortly before starting school, so just before turning 5, along with managing to jump and scoot.
This is within 'normal range' so I didn't think much of it until seeing dd master all of them by age 2.5.

Agree always worth having a chat with teacher and explaining what your child thought, while being aware 4-5yos can be telling the truth yet still missing the point totally (ds was sad the one day he didn't stay on green for behaviour and was in trouble 'for washing his hands'. Teacher said it was because he and another child were washing hands and had taken tubes and containers and had a big water fight. Ds thought they were experimenting so that was OK... New rule, don't take things from class to the toilets unless teacher tells you to.)

I think too much emphasis is being placed on the corner. I imagine it was more him being told a hundred times to sit still and then being moved to a different place which just happened to be a corner as that's where he was safe/could still be seen.

I still find it hard to believe that he couldn't sit with a modicum of crossed leggedness unless it's his first day as they would have done it plenty of times. But if he genuinely couldn't then it is hard for him to understand why he was moved. I'm sure there was more to his behaviour than just not sitting crossed legged.

As for the crying. I imagine it was story time and perhaps 5 minutes before home time. Therefore he is four and tired after a long day. Easier to get mummy in to sort him out than hold up 29 other children who need to go home if he has got himself upset. Dragging a crying child out to the gate is worse than leaving him to calm down and wait for mummy.

The corner thing is a red herring. The leg crossing thing is a red herring. He really will not have been removed from sitting with the others purely because he couldn't/didn't cross his legs. Probably within whatever happened, there was a request to cross his legs (which he might not have been able to do) but it was probably in the context of them sitting still, listening and co-operating. He might remember the request to cross his legs and not be remembering the rest of what happened, in terms of what the teacher said said to him and what he did in order to be removed. This might be deliberate partial forgetting (children don't like to admit to what they have done wrong) or he just might not fully remember.

As a parent it is so important to realise that small children cannot be relied on the entirely for full and accurate recall of events. Therefore you cannot base your judgements about the situation purely on it. So, the fact he couldn't cross his legs, is not the crucial element in deciding if he was treated poorly or not. The CONTEXT of what was going on and the wider picture of what the teacher was asking of him and what else he was up to are vital in understanding this event. And they always be so. Next time something happens and he reports half a story to you of what happened, you need to see it as a half story. It is no necessarily lying, but just a 4 year olds inability to give the full picture. So the key question to be considering (and asking the teacher about, if you feel you need to) is what exactly happened....what was the teacher expecting of him and what was he doing. That way you will get a more accurate understanding.

Don't start from the point that he has been cruelly treated and you want to complain. Start from the point that you want to understand what happened and help him avoid such situations in future.

Kmum31 ReallyTired was not suggesting your little one has learning difficulties. Every time there's a thread on MN about if a child "ought to be able to" do things at a certain age, people always throw learning difficulties, or special needs into the mix, to explain why all dc might not be able to,. ReallyTired was just using MN etiquette to remember to pre-empt any "...should be able to..." phrase, with the rider 'unless they have a difficulty.

Once again - you should go and read all of ChocolateWombats posts as she has really explained very clearly in great detail.

And OP, you say that he 'probably acted out' over the leg crossing, meaning he misbehaved. You say this, but pass over it very quickly, emphasising the crossing legs thing instead. The fact is, that it will have been the 'acting out' which resulted in him being moved.
Some parents blame every incident of poor behaviour on someone or something else. The child themselves is never to blame. If the child hears that message it can be very damaging.....they think they are untouchable and can get away with anything. So even if you do think the school have been unfair, it is really important your son does not hear that message from you, but hears you backing the school up, whilst still offering him encouragement and support. That support needs to be helping him adapt to the expectations, not blaming the school.
He will have forgotten the incident already, unless you make a thing of it, so it grows in his mind.

And finally OP, just to say, you are coming across as very defensive. You want to defend your child and imply he had no role in being moved. You want to jump on previous posters, deciding they have said your child has learning difficulties.
Everyone is not out to 'get you' and your boy. You don't have to battle against the school and everyone else. People on here want to help you, not judge or criticise you. See everything as a learning experience to help you and your boy move forward. The incident at school was clearly upsetting to you, but that teacher is not your enemy, but someone who is going to help your boy through this year and teach him all kinds of good stuff. See her as your helper and look to develop a good relationship with her, both outwardly and in your head too. It's not a battle.

I'm quite offended by you, kmum31, for suggesting that having learning difficulties is something terrifying, to be "suggested" in a way that makes you so angry. One of my own children has learning difficulties, it's not the horror in the corner that people with typically behaved children seem to think.