Primary admissions - its a faith school - parents committed etc really?

[crochetcircle]

Erm, feeling a bit silly and naive and under-prepared. We will be applying for a place for our dd1 in January 2015. Be gentle please.

Have just read the admissions criteria for our 'local' primary school and the first priority reads like this:

Children whose parent(s) are committed members of and regularly worship in the parish church of St XX in XX (that is at least having attended fortnightly over the past six months)

Firstly, I'm sure this wasn't the case when we moved here - I thought they just allocated places to local people and the faith stuff was incidental. Could they have changed the criteria to be more religious in the past year?

Second, argh. Do people really do this? We haven't even looked around schools yet let alone started attending a church in anticipation! (And I don't attend church, never have. Not sure I could do this without having faith - even if we really liked the school. Do people really do this? I thought this was an urban myth.)

Practical questions:

How can we find out if we have any chance of getting in without going to church? Can you just ring the school and ask them whether this happens?

We only have 5 months of possible church-going from now until the January 2015 application deadline. Would this mean we now have no chance of meeting the criteria anyway? How on earth do you get this on the record - are parents signing in at church every weekend? I mean, really.

Yes, there are other schools locally so we won't miss out on a school place. But this one is so close it seems a shame not to even have it as a choice.

It's not just the rocketing birth rate Tiggy, although that is of course a significant factor. It's also the national policy of reducing surplus school places, which is leading to a reduction in choice. The policy is financially well justified, but doesn't sit well in a system where some schools are faith schools - either because people increasing can't get into them, or because people are increasingly being allocated to them when they don't want to go.

SanityClause: "it would take a huge political will to change the current system. And I don't think there is that."

Actually you might be surprised at the progress that has been made. The Coalition Agreement contains a pledge to encourage more open admissions in faith schools. The Lib Dems are strongly committed to that aim (well, perhaps not Nick Clegg, but otherwise), Labour are making the right noises and the message isn't lost on the Conservatives either.

Recent events in Birmingham, may well trigger a review after the election. That's one reason why the recent call for evidence by the Human Rights Commission is so important, and why people who are affected by this should take the time to contribute. Now is certainly not the time to sit back and say "well it'll never change, so why bother?!".

Tiggy

I emailed the school in question amdxtgeyI've cone back saying that their approach is to take up references with local clergy and it is the clergy who are asked if the criteria have been fulfilled.

And perhaps I might like to ask local clergy to ascertain how they go about giving a reference.

Is the school allowed to delogate it's responsibility like this? Surely not

Fortunately, having just read this thread, I checked my local faith school's admission criteria, as it is the school I would like DD to attend in a year's time, and we just have to provide proof of her baptism. I can do that and we live close by so should be ok if that ends up our number 1 choice. I could not prove that we attend the church every week although I take DD as often as possible, because I work shifts which frequently mean I am at work on Sunday morning (or have just finished a nightshift and can't survive Sunday night without the sleep, and evening mass isn't an option as my shift is 13hrs long). I am very grateful now that my choice of school is not affected by my antisocial job, but I can't be the only parent in this situation. The fact that it only has to be one parent attending doesn't help, because DH is atheist, and the only occasion he ever stepped foot in the church was for DD's Christening.

That's good to hear happypotamus, although keep an eye on it as schools do sometimes change their policies - faith schools that have more restrictive criteria have often introduced them to deal with over-subscription.

I do know one dad, a fireman, whose night-shift ended just as the church service was starting, so he rushed in to sign the register, then discretely left during the first hymn to go home and sleep.

If you are applying this year they can't change the policy.

school admission criteria can change each year depending on circumstances - people moving in, a new estate being built etc. It may be that this school had become over-subscribed so they have changed the criteria

No, my comment was aimed at op. Didn't have time to rtft - sorry to offend!

Many families develop faith to get into high performing faith schools.

But some families do actually have faith, do attend and participate in their local church and want their child to go to a school with the same religious ethos.

We were not prepared to the former so our DC pass 2 local faith schools on their way to secondaries further away.

Not sure why an atheist parent would want their DC at a faith school.

RaisinBoys, developing faith won't get anyone into a high performing faith school because faith isn't something that can be measured - that's why measurable things like church attendance are used instead. They don't require faith - just good organisation, self-discipline and persistence.

Many non-believers genuinely go to church - for reasons of community, tradition, and to participate in ceremonies with families and friends - such as baptism, marriage and funerals. Sometimes they do it to accompany a relative or friend. Often they enjoy many aspects of the service - even if its just the singing, or the traditional stories. Most churches welcome all comers, without testing their faith at the door - nobody is going to kick you out if you still silent during the recitation of the creed, don't take communion, or just hum along to the hymns.

Going to church in order to fulfill the requirements for school entry is just an extension of that tradition for many people. Most people have been brought up to stand in church respectfully, and listen selectively, without worrying too much about whether they believe it all. Many of the same people are happy for their own children to learn to do the same - it's been part of our culture for a long time.

"Not sure why an atheist parent would want their DC at a faith school"
For the same set of possible reasons they might want them to attend any other school - e.g. because it is the closest, smallest, has the most charismatic head, the best facilities, the best Ofsted report, or the most attractive wildlife area - or some combination of the above.

The point is that the fact it is that a faith ethos shouldn't be a barrier to anyone choosing a state-funded school school for whatever other reason they might want to choose it. Provided they don't mind the faith ethos, and will respect it, then they should have equal priority to those who are actively seeking the faith ethos. In other words, schools have many dimensions, and so the "faith" reason for choosing a particular school should not trump any other reason.

"They don't require faith - just good organisation, self-discipline and persistence."

Which of course is why they tend to be socio-economically selective.

This atheist wanted her children to go to a faith school because it's our local school, where all their friends go, and the only school within walking distance. Luckily the school wears its faith status pretty lightly.

Yes Amber, and in some areas there simply aren't any community schools. The CE school might be the only school in the village, with the nearest community school being several miles away.

I live in an area of London where all of the schools are heavily over-subscribed - the community schools as much as the faith schools - so for many people going to church to get an equal chance of getting into one of the faith schools is an insurance policy against being one of the x% who end up being allocated to slightly emptier schools a 45 minute commute away.

It is coercion, aimed at filling churches, and its side effect is a booming private education sector, and lots of competitive house-hopping.

One good thing about modern schools, including most modern faith schools, is that if they do have children from other backgrounds they are required to be respectful of that - no teacher can tell a child from a different background that she is wrong about her beliefs, and most good teachers, in whatever kind of school, would encourage children to talk about their beliefs.

So, in my experience, muslim/hindu/atheist/whatever children in Christian schools aren't indoctrinated. They are given a voice to express their own views - and the other children learn from them. Yes, they are in a minority, but that can be a formative experience for everyone.