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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Am I being a pushy mum? Please help

26 replies

mummybunny · 19/09/2006 18:34

My 10 yo DD is is year 6 at her primary school. This week and last, the children have been involved in campaigning for the school council and for team leaders.The election was solely a vote by all of the children and the elected children hold the positions all year.
DD didnt get voted in for anything, and she was gutted. When I collected her from school she was in tears along with a couple of other children. There are four teams in the school, and each has been elected a boy & girl team leader and a boy and girl deputy. This means that half of the class have badges and special duties, and the other half have not. To make matters even worse, some of the popular children have been voted in for school council and as TLs, which I think is unfair.
DD has mild special needs and I was very keen for her to be voted in as I think that it would have done her a world of good, and would have helped her confidence etc. All of the children who have got in are those who are the most popular and those who are academic high achievers. The ones which are shy, have special needs or arejust "Different" have been left out.

Now, I am all for democracy, but this seems to me to be going a bit far with a load of ten year olds. I am thinking of writing to the school tommorow to discuss this with them. I also think that it would be much better if the jobs were rotated round, so that many children were encouraged and able to be responsible.

Am I just being a pushy mum? Please be honest!

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SaintGeorge · 19/09/2006 18:36

IMO if everyone gets a duty of some sort just because the teachers want it to be fair, then the kids never learn that life simply isn't always fair. Will come as a big shock to them when they find that one out!

For the same reason I support competive sports days, even if it is just team v team.

TheDullWitch · 19/09/2006 18:37

It is just life! All do not always win prizes. Should they all be made special head children? Children have to learn to live with disappointment and our job is to cheer them along, not mitigate against every failure.

Medulla · 19/09/2006 18:37

It seems to have been poorly managed by the school. I think I would also be inclined to go nd talk to someone about it. Your poor daughter , it's going to nothing for her self esteem, what were they thinking. I know that we live in a democratic society and eventually your daughter will have to learn to be part of it but I think 10 is a bit young to start.

SaintGeorge · 19/09/2006 18:39

They elect school council at age 6 in our school.

SoupDragon · 19/09/2006 18:39

Yes and no...

Would you have felt it unfair on the children who were not voted in had your DD got a position? Would you have felt the need to "complain" like you do now? OTOH, I do think it's too much to have positions for half the class. Losing out on getting one of, say, 4 positions is easier to bear than missing out on something half the class have.

Twiglett · 19/09/2006 18:42

sorry but that's just life .. I think your job is to console and love her ..

I think you're right in wondering whether you're being a pushy parent

I bet all the children who won, popular or not are happy that they won .. probably as happy as your child would have been .. and probably as deserving and wanted it as much

Medulla · 19/09/2006 19:15

Is this really the norm in schools now? Electing school council, head boy/girl in primary school. (my children are only 3 and 1 so I really have no idea!) If it is I am horrified! I never came across this until upper sixth form.

sorkycake · 19/09/2006 19:36

I understand the frustration you must be feeling at not really being able to affect the outcome positively for your daughter, we all feel the need to protect our kids and want them to 'do well'.
BUT even though the lesson is hard, we do all have to learn it at some point, 10 is a better age than 6 imho, bit more more ability to reason iyswim. I think it probably would cast you in the light of a pushy mum with school, but you do what you feel you have to.

SG I absolutely agree that competitve sports' day should remain, and my kids are crap! It is a good lesson though, for all concerned.

FluffyCharlotteCorday · 19/09/2006 19:37

If there were only 4 people elected, I'd say yes, you're being a pushy mum.

But half the class seems to me, to be extremely stupid. There are too many elected people there for the unelected not to feel bad. It seems that the school is trying to have it both ways - try and include as many people as possible, while still having the situation where some lose out. I think a school should have the courage of its convictions and either have everyone rotating, or just having a few doing it. The reason this situation is so unsatisfactory, is because it's neither fish nor fowl. Having said that, I'm not sure if I'd bother to complain about it formally. Might raise it with a school governor so that it was done better next year, though.

Saturn74 · 19/09/2006 19:43

DS1 was always voted onto the school council, and was always very proud about it. DS2 never was, and he was always very sad about it.

It's hard when your children are upset, but as long as everyone got a vote, then I don't think it would be appropriate to complain to the school about the results.

You could perhaps suggest that they create some other special jobs or responsibilities that all the Y6 children get to do at some point ie: privileges for being in the oldest class and therefore worthy of a bit more responsibility?

Medulla · 19/09/2006 19:47

I wouldn't complain but I would certainly want ot speak to someone to discuss their motives and aims of the exercise. Personally I think the children are too young and as others have said it's strange that half of the class have responsiblities but the other half don't. We're still at Pre-School and mums and tots, clearly I have a lot to learn!!

Original poster

mummybunny · 19/09/2006 22:40

Thanks guys. I really apprechiate your honesty.

I think that I will have a chat with school about things, but I wont complain about it. Those of you who have pointed out that life isnt fair are absolutely right and I have explained all this to DD.

I suppose that as a mum of a special needs DD I am used to fighting her corner every step of the way! It is not an overreaction to say that in her eyes, DD seems to "fail" at everything, and I suppose that the election was just another knock for her.

After reading all of your comments, I do feel that it is innapropraite of the school to elect so many children, and that that has made it worse. It is one thing to elect a couple of TLs, but quite another to make it 50% of the class.

Thanks for all of your help - your advice really has been much apprechiated and its really great to be able ask other mums opinions.
XX

OP posts:

Twiglett · 20/09/2006 06:19

I didn't realise it was half the class that won and the other half either lost or didn't enter

I think that is worth complaining about / discussing

Obviously badly thought through

but phrase it on a school-wide problem not a personal one

curlew · 20/09/2006 06:33

My dd is a year 6 too. In our school, each class fron yeqr 2 has two school council representatives - a boy and a girl. The children who want the job nominate themselves and they have an election with speeches and everything. Prefects are chosen from year 6 by the teachers.

It does sound unfair that so many people have special jobs. Mind you - if your daughter is anything like mine, I would just make sure it isn't "half the class has special jobs" in the same way that"everyone but me's got a mobile phone/tv in their room/chocolatespread sandwiches for lunch/is allowed to stay up til 11.00pm"!

Hallgerda · 20/09/2006 07:46

mummybunny, I agree with SaintGeorge and others that your daughter has to learn that life isn't fair, but I also wonder whether school council elections put an undue and unhealthy emphasis on popularity.

SueW · 20/09/2006 07:53

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at OP's request.

lorina · 20/09/2006 08:44

My ds has a major disablity but goes to a mainstream school. In year 6 his class had these elections but there was only one 'winner'. Very unexpectedly it was ds. He apparently got 6 votes out of the possible 30 whereas other kids got 2 or 3.He was very please to win but he wouldnt have been at all put out to have lost.Thats life.

Can I suggest that you pick your batles with care? I think this is small beer. You sat that you need to fight her corner but really i dont think you should be making a fight out of something that happens in the classroom as a normal part of school life that affects everyone.

For what its worth ds hated his position of responsibilty and was relieved when the year was up !

SSSandy · 20/09/2006 09:24

Find it inappropriate for primary school.

At secondary school I hated, really HATED these elections. I was elected (against my will) Head of our bl* house and I hated every single bit of it, as well as onto all sorts of stupid committee things. I reckon the only reason I ever got elected was that I was pretty (way back then), I had no interest in it at all.

To this day, I avoid all committees like the plague. You won't see me on a single school or club committee or taking on any kind of a treasurer role or whatever although I'm always getting people trying to foist them on me. If school elections are supposed to have some kind of positive effect, I have to say the whole thing failed spectacularly with me.

Sherbert37 · 20/09/2006 09:52

This does happen in most schools now I think. Of my three, DS1 coasted into vice chair of house, DD tried every year for six years and never got onto School Council, and DS2 has just been elected to School Council. With DD I encouraged her to try every year because it is easy for them to give up at the first hurdle. She became a playground monitor and I made a big fuss about that. DS2 didn't want to try again this year because he finds writing very difficult and you have to take notes to feedback to the class. I encouraged him to say how good his memory was in his 'speech' and he was so pleased to be elected. Important to encourage them to keep trying and to point out that they have succeeded in other things. We have 2 per class which seems about right, then in top primary, house captains and School Council across the two classes.

Blu · 20/09/2006 09:53

I think the 'half the class' division is a bit much.

WQere the people your DD voted fro elected? If so, you could tell her that she has played an important role in democracy, voting for the people she thinks would do a good job, and that now she needs to ask the questions to make sure they DO do a good job - encourage her to ask what happened at council meetings, bring up things in class discussions that she would like adressed etc etc - help her follow the democracy model through and give her a sense of her part in it!

milward · 20/09/2006 10:00

MBunny - I don't think you're being pushy at all.

Your dd wants to help & volunteered herself to do this. This type of action needs to be rewarded. If kids want to get involved why should they be told no. The other kids voted so it's usually the lounder more popular ones that get voted (not sying your daughter isn't this mb). The school should ensure that everyone wanting to help out gets a role that's recognised.

Best wishes xxx

frogs · 20/09/2006 10:01

We had this with dd1 last year (Y6). All her friends had positions of one kind or another (monitor, head girl, librarian, councillor) and she along with a few spectacularly badly-behaved kids didn't get anything. She felt she had been singled out -- she has suffered badly from boredom throughout her time at primary and has intermittently been a bit of a lippy little smart-arse, but not majorly disruptive by any stretch of the imagination.

My concern with her not getting a post was that it pushed her still further in the direction of being stroppy and disaffected -- she did mind, a lot, but was making out that she didn't, along the lines of, "I don't want a stupid job anyway, school is pointless, I hate the teachers, they'd just threaten to take it away from me so I'm better off without being a monitor", etc etc.

I did have a word with the teacher in the end, not all guns blazing, but just to say that dd1 felt she had been singled out and that I was worried about the effect it was having on her behaviour and attitude. A few weeks later she was quietly made a monitor (I think they'd had to sack some of the original choices!) and she wore it with pride for the rest of the year.

But a friend with a child in this year's Y6 has just run into the same issue -- the teacher's arguement being, 'oh he's too absent-minded, he couldn't cope with a job'.

I do think schools need to think through what they are trying to achieve with these posts: is it for popular children, are they trying to achieve effective help with running the school, are they trying to reward capable and responsible children, or encourage those who are not so high-profile to stretch themselves. If one could see the thinking behind the policy it would be easier to explain it to the children, but as it is the rewards seem to go mainly to the children who've already done well throughout their school career and/or who have parents who are heavily involved as governors/PTA.

Glassofwine · 20/09/2006 10:01

We have a similar system in DD's school except the children have to apply to the head teacher in writing and are chosen by him in consultation with their class teacher. In addition to these roles there are others like, playground buddies, library monitors etc so in the end everyone gets something. I would talk to the school in your position and who cares if they think you're pushy you are the only one who is going to look out for your daughter.

Jaffacake1 · 20/09/2006 10:15

this is all very interesting...

iwould suggest to the school that some kids having 2 jobs is wrong; tl and sc is too much they should only be allowed to go for one or the other...if i was their mum i would worry how much normalschool they were missing!

sorkycake · 20/09/2006 10:45

Hmm, with a little reflection surely a better model for the school to adopt is put half the available jobs up for election and keep the other half as a job bestowed to help children who may have self esteem issues or need encouragement to put their skills forward.

Most schools have some sort of reward system for those children who have full attendances etc, classes as a whole receive trophies for hard work for example every week. The emphasis being to encourage children to consider their actions on the rest of the class as a whole and not adopt an "I'm alright Jack" attitude iyswim.

I think the query about the lessons being learned could be voiced to one of the Parent Governors, after all that's what they're there for.
Some children are going to be disappointed time and time again, because for whatever reason, they aren't popular.

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