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11+ 2014 What are people doing over the hols?

181 replies

SeagullsAndSand · 14/08/2014 07:37

Just realised we only have 3 weeks until they go back.

Trying to keep things calm although dc is starting to talk about the exam itself.

Have kept things pretty low key(odd VR paper)wondering if we should up it a gear.

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MumTryingHerBest · 18/08/2014 11:06

rollonthesummer - His friend turned two pages of the maths paper over and only noticed right at the very end-he had no fine to do any of the questions. I've seen similar scenarios mentioned on the 11plus site. Pretty much everyone I have spoken to locally have said that the actual exam content should not be an issue. However, exam technique, timing and staying calm under the pressure are areas that have to be covered before the exam. Would be very interested in hearing any tips people have with regards to these aspects :-)

MumTryingHerBest · 18/08/2014 11:16

antimatter so IMHO grammar school is for hard working students, obviously all of them have to have certain abilities but every one puts in a lot of hours Have you found that the level of effort/hard work has increased in line with increasing difficulty of the work given or has there been a point in which it has levelled out without affecting academic performance. I think this is my biggest concern for my DC.

Yes he loves school, he happily gets on with homework and often goes above what is asked of him. But if he has to work his socks off to pass the 11 plus, is he going to be able to increase his level of effort in line with the work given once in the school? I suppose I'm unsure of what his actual limit is.

MumTryingHerBest · 18/08/2014 11:20

rollonthesummer I was quite confident DS would pass-his levels suggested he would Sorry, what levels suggested he would pass? My local primary school gives no indication as to a DCs suitability and they don't cover NVR in school so I don't really have anything to gage whether he could pass or not.

Ladymuck · 18/08/2014 11:21

The 11+ system is unfair on so many levels. The "system" was never designed to force children to work more during their holidays.
But it exists, so you either face it or ignore it.

Ds sat both the Kent test and the Sutton "superselectives" last year.
For Kent he had to sit GL VR, NVR and Maths papers. Just over 9,000 children sat the test and of those 1,555 scored the "maximum" standardised score 141 in VR which equates to a raw score of approx 80%+. Almost 6,000 children scored over 118, the passmark. By way of contrast only 225 children scored 141 in maths, and 3,660 "passed" maths. The difference is down to how easy it is to prepare for VR - almost half the questions can be answered if you know some standard techniques, the remainder rely on vocabulary which seems to mainly come from a fixed bank of words. So with a few hours of practice it is reasonably easy to improve your score to around 80%. NVR was similar, but not so pronounced - some children really struggle spatially regardless of the amount of practice. For most children the chance of a Kent grammar place rested solely on their maths (and then how close they lived to the school, or whether there were other criteria).

The Sutton selectives ran an initial round of multiple choice maths and English papers which cut the number sitting from 2,200 to 800, and then each school set their own standard form maths papers and a creative writing paper. No VR or NVR in sight. Children had to pass the second round to have a chance of a place, and the places were allocated purely on their ranked score. There are often up to 30 or more children on the same score around the cutoff, so every single mark makes a difference, and dropping 3 marks across 4 papers could mean the difference between a place or being 70th on the waiting list for your preferred school.

The amount and type of prep for each of these exams was quite different. Once you'd cracked the technique for codes in VR, then you can approach the question with confidence, and just a little bit of practice is needed to keep you up to speed over the summer. But for creative writing, it is always possible to continue to extend your style, and there will be some children writing at level 7 at this stage. And there is a difference between being able to write well, and being able to answer set tasks in a limited time.

So in terms of what is needed, it very much depends on what exams you are facing. For Kent we knew ds didn't need to score above 80% in a paper - whether you scored 80 or 100, you'd still get the 141 maximum standardised score. For Sutton, every mark counted. At this stage (with 2 weeks of holiday left) 2 or 3 hours a day would have been total overkill in Kent, but felt about right for Sutton. That said, I do agree that a child should try a couple of mock test days, as managing the full quota of tests on a single day can be something of a marathon. Ds's Kent test involved him being in the test centre for almost 6 hours.

Ds doesn't regret any of his preparation, and apart for some of the tedious VR/NVR which thankfully was only a small part of the effort, he has noticed the benefit across the rest of the school year. The most significant benefit for him has been to understand that if he puts in effort, it makes a difference to the outcome. None of us are looking back at a blighted summer, much less a blighted childhood. There is still plenty of time to have fun in the other 8 or 9 hours a day. That said I do feel for parents who are both working fulltime (or obv single parents working fulltime). This is a very difficult time for them, and it must indeed feel very relentless. Within my circle of friends and acquaintances it was mostly children whose parents were in this category who opted out of the tests.

MumTryingHerBest · 18/08/2014 11:27

Ladymuck Excellent post :-)

Chewbecca · 18/08/2014 11:27

mum the Southend grammars specifically state they are aligned to level 5 English and Maths.

Given the exam is in September of year 6, I interpret that to mean children with comfortable level 5s in both subjects at the end of year 5 are suitable candidates.

Rabbitcar · 18/08/2014 11:34

DDs both did prep for their super selective grammar. They were bright but of course needed practice on exam techniques, and some elements were not covered by their primary school, so needed teaching.

It was difficult over the summer; I wanted them to enjoy their summer but do enough work as well. Hopefully the balance was right as they got in, and are doing very well there, and they both say they are glad that they worked hard. Those children in their classes whose parents did not ask them to do any work simply didn't get in. There will be exceptions, and some children will get in with zero prep, but I don't think that's the norm when you are looking at schools with +2k applicants for 100 places.

Good luck to those whose DCs are taking the exam this year. My DDs aren't geniuses at all and they got in, so it's clearly possible.

MumTryingHerBest · 18/08/2014 11:35

Chewbecca mum the Southend grammars specifically state they are aligned to level 5 English and Maths. Given the exam is in September of year 6, I interpret that to mean children with comfortable level 5s in both subjects at the end of year 5 are suitable candidates. runs off to check house prices in Southend (joking). DC got lv 5 in English and Maths at the end of yr 4.

Unfortunately, the area I live in the SATs results give no indication what so ever as to whether a DC is in with a chance. Some parents claim DCs need to be a lv 6 but there are plenty who gain places with lv 4.

rollonthesummer · 18/08/2014 11:43

DS was a level 5 (maths/reading) and 4a (writing) at the end of year 5 and a 6s across the board at the end of y6 if that helps-and passed v comfortably.

We're not in a super selective area though.

antimatter · 18/08/2014 12:02

Have you found that the level of effort/hard work has increased in line with increasing difficulty of the work given or has there been a point in which it has levelled out without affecting academic performance. I think this is my biggest concern for my DC.

I think y7 in all secondary schools are for kids to find their way around and settle in.
I decided from that point on not to interfere with how they homework is done. They mature incredibly fast in y7 and 8, By the end of y9 they are like a different person from y5. They see that school they are in is there to help them. They get to make mistakes and suffer for it! I was never driving to school with a piece of forgotten homework they forgot (I work FT and am a single parent too) or workbook. This was the time for them to take full responsibility for all their actions. I provide environment and buy all necessary bits and pieces - their "job" is to use it and work at school work and that includes being at school on time.

School set homework suitable for age and level of the class so I always trusted that if they were falling behind school should know about it by seeing them not being able to answer questions. In my ds case esp maths was showing in poor exam results and he knows where he needs to improve. His school is very good at keeping parents informed so I know he can't coast.

The trick is for them to know is OK not to know - hard when you are in the class where everyone is very able. ask questions, go to homework clubs and ask for help there.

In any case academic performance won't be a linear progress. I never suspected my son is going to be outstanding in English, school helped him to get that confidence and understanding of the subject.

My dd found inner strength to overcome believe that he can't do well in German and when she was in y7 or 8 was in the middle of her cohort for Maths and now chosen Maths for A- levels.

That's why I think child who is able to work hard will find their way in the grammar system - good teaching and over all environment which encourages hard work and is honest with them about their abilities makes it hapen.

I wouldn't worry about it for your dc.
All my dd's school friends went through bad patches in screwing something and then getting much better and improving.

SlightlyJadedJack · 18/08/2014 12:21

Wow this has moved on a bit since I last posted!

DS has had a bout of Norovirus for a couple of days so I've very generously allowed him to not do any prep work while throwing up Wink.

Anybody in Bucks here? We are doing the CEM which they only introduced last year (only VR previously) so its English (Cloze, Comprehension, Vocab etc.) Mathematical Reasoning, VR and NVR. As others have said up thread the practice papers we have looked at have many things not covered within the year 5 curriculum. Far from it. Also there is a very strict policy on the schools in county doing absolutely zero prep work for the 11+ other than one mock test two days before the real thing. They do not get that test marked and they are not allowed to bring the paper home.

The mock test is done on the second day back at school (due to INSET days on the Thurs and Fri) and the real test done on the fourth day back at school in September. Most children will still be in 'holiday mode' unless they have been doing some prep work over the holidays.

With regard to the SATs levels, these seem to only come into play when appealing? Our HT has said that she will likely only support children achieving Level 5s in their end of year 5 SATs.

MumTryingHerBest · 18/08/2014 12:22

antimatter Thanks, helps a lot :-) I imagine I will have plenty more doubt sessions with regards to what is the best way forward for my DC. The next set of exam results will likely bring about a fair amount of panic for me.

MumTryingHerBest · 18/08/2014 12:26

SlightlyJadedJack Anybody in Bucks here Not in Bucks but considering putting DC in for the test. As it will be a fall back option I will only be covering off the NVR with my DC.

SlightlyJadedJack · 18/08/2014 12:35

MumTryingHerBest Can I ask why you would put him the Bucks test? There are very tight catchment areas here so I can't understand why anyone from out of county would do it? Genuine question by the way!

antimatter · 18/08/2014 12:40

MumTryingHerBest - I think every parent worries but thats why we are hoping that in the right environment our kids reach their best

I think big majority will. Not all but that number is smaller than in other schools.

MumTryingHerBest · 18/08/2014 12:57

SlightlyJadedJack MumTryingHerBest Can I ask why you would put him the Bucks test? I haven't yet, DC is just about to start yr 5.

I was not aware that Chesham Grammar had not gone OOC. I was under the impression they had in the 2014 allocations as per the following: www.buckscc.gov.uk/media/1749713/ALLOCATION-PROFILE-FINAL-updated-3-March.pdf.

I'm not sure I would call a 14 mile distance allocation 'tight' to be honest.

StillWishihadabs · 18/08/2014 13:08

Ds is sitting the kent test in September. He had a weeks break straight after school finished, then a week of classes for the 11+. He is doing an hour to 90 mins a day 5 days a week until the test on the 13th of September. This is made up of going over things and a timed 25 minute test, which is what he is facing in the real thing.

He is also banned from screens during school hours- I am cruel.

SlightlyJadedJack · 18/08/2014 13:09

That's an interesting table actually. I didn't mean tight as in distance specifically, I meant that they don't seem to take out of catchment despite what that table says. I only say this based on visits last year; Dr Challoner's head for instance told us that while you could apply if you were out of catchment they had never taken out of catchment as they have too many in catchment who pass. I'm not sure if he was spinning us a line but that's where my question came from.

MumTryingHerBest · 18/08/2014 13:33

SlightlyJadedJack What you were told about Dr Challoner's is correct.

Bear in mind that the document is from March so final allocations could have gone out further since then. Of course if you are saying that Bucks CC has it wrong, you are more likely to know this than I am TBH.

From what I understand a number of children from Harrow and Hertfordshire were allocated places at Chesham Grammar and are due to start in September. There were a number of posts on the 11plus website where people were asking about travel arrangements etc. after being allocated a place.

SlightlyJadedJack · 18/08/2014 14:22

I wonder why Chesham are taking from so far then if there are so many in catchment passing (they have same catchment as Dr Cs)? Oh well, who knows how these things work! I do think that the catchments will be gone in a year or two though, so Dr C's and RGS can go SS. That'll be something fun to look forward to!

MumTryingHerBest · 18/08/2014 18:05

SlightlyJadedJack I wonder why Chesham are taking from so far this is the first year Chesham Grammar has been all offered simply because there are better performing, more desirable schools in the areas alongside a relatively low concentration of local population.

Given the schools academic performance and the deficit of school places in surrounding areas, it will, without doubt become increasingly difficult to gain a place there. Allocation distance will decrease substantially in the next few years as has happened in surrounding areas.

LeonardWentToTheOffice · 19/08/2014 00:55

Thanks to pps re my ds.

YY to others' advice re working on exam skills and technique. For DS we fretted about the pages stuck together thing. I advised him to lick his fingers and specifically zip through the paper ensuring this hadn't happened! Whether he did this or not, I don't actually know! Grin

Also. I told ds, any that he couldn't get the answer to to make a good guess. So he could move on as quickly as possible, not wasting too much time on a tricky question, any that he was struggling with, make a good guess there and then, but then to mark it so he could return to it at the end if he had the time. We realised that he may not have time at the end so if he left them unanswered he would stand no chance with them - a guessed answer at least stands a chance of being right. AS it was, the extra practice meant his speed was up and he had plenty of time.(When he first started practising I was very worried he would run out of time.) Hopefully he also followed my last bit of advice. What do you do when you've finished. Check, check, check , check :-)

Cockadoodledooo · 19/08/2014 20:26

Ds1 decided right at the end of last term that actually, despite having for the last 2 years had his heart set on a particular comp, he actually would like to do his 11+ and go to the grammar. Obviously this hasn't left much prep time..

He's had a go at practice papers (got 75% - 100% of the questions he actually answered - on his first VR paper), and doesn't seem fazed by the layout of the papers or the duration. He's gone through some study books for the relevant board/test types (we're GL Assessment, multiple choice maths, English and VR only). I'm not really sure what else we should be doing? It's nearly 30 years since I did this for myself and all I really remember about it is that my dMum bought me a Nik Kershaw single for sitting it Grin

VanillaHoney · 19/08/2014 20:53

SlightlyJadedJack

Not in Bucks but also in CEM area. This is the 2nd year the test will be CEM previously GL.

Mainly worked on VR & NVR as this is not covered at her school.

Last year was the first CEM year here and the pass rate at our primary school went up drastically. Hoping for the best so she can join DD1 at GS.

Good luck to all taking the test. Will soon be over...

SlightlyJadedJack · 20/08/2014 08:34

Vanilla that's the same as us, my DS will be the second year here to sit it but I'm pretty sure we had the opposite in terms of results although this is anecdotal rather than based on actual researched stats! DS has done no work since the weekend and is out til late today so nothing will happen today and I had a mild panic this morning. Maybe a few days off will do his brain good.

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