What are the general advantages of private over state primary education? How do we choose?

[cakesonatrain]

DS is 3 so school applications are obviously in mine and DH's minds. We are moving house soon, and the new area has excellent state primaries, and grammar schools. We can afford to go private for primary (the school we're considering will cost a smidge less than nursery fees).
Obviously every individual school is different and has different pros and cons. But are there any generally acknowledged benefits of a small private primary?
I think what I want to understand is, what would we actually be buying for our 2 grand a term or whatever it is, over and above/different from what the children would get from the excellent state school?

I know we need to go and visit the schools, but obviously we can't do that right now. What sorts of things should we be looking for/asking about when we do visit?

Can you give us any help in deciding? DH is very pro-private, my position is something like "I'm happy to spend the money if we are really buying an advantage and significantly better experience for our children, but imagine what we could do with that sort of money if we decided not to spend it on school fees"

The primary school I volunteered at had a part time TA in reception and Y1 only. That was the reason I carried on volunteering for so long. Y2 was bedlem. 30 plus little ones and one teacher.

I think this is why you can't say that 'state schools have this' or 'state schools do that' there's just no consistency of provision!

Our local private school has 9 more pupils per class than the state.

Check this first.

Weatherall how many pupils does the state school have per class? If the state school has 25 and the private school has 34 then I would be surprised that the private school is still operating. If the state school has 12 and the private school has 21 then the figures make more sense as lots of people don't want classes that are too small or too big due to friendship and sporting opportunities etc.
As I said previously I looked around a private school with classes of 26 and immediately turned around and walked away because I wasn't going to spend money on sending my child to a class of 26 but lots of people were happy to spend their money there as the results were good.

We have class sizes of 22, at least one teaching assistant per class, before and after schools care next door, plus after school sports and arts clubs every day together with lunchtime sports clubs each day too.

This is a state primary.

I'm feeling increasingly appreciative of DD's state primary. She'll be in a class of 20 next year for Y3, with a part time TA.

She will have access to a wide range of clubs and activities, before school, after school and at lunchtime (last year she went to choir, multisports, athletics, gymnastics, board games club and dodgeball. There were many more things she could have chosen) and there is a termly inter-house sports competition for the whole school, as well as chances to compete against other schools at various sports.

She has lots of opportunities to volunteer, both within the school (litter patrol, helping organise activities for younger children) and within the wider community.

Each year group will put on a play one a year, with a smaller performance or presentation every half term.

There is an open door policy throughout the school, although you need to make an appointment to see the head. Parents are often invited to the school to share their skills. All parents are welcome to attend assembly on Fridays, and there is a weekly coffee morning in the staffroom
for parents. There is a newsletter every week.

Staff turnover is very low, and many members of staff have spent their career at the school, starting as volunteers or students on placement and returning when qualified.

It is very diverse, socially and ethnically.

There is wrap-around before and after school and holiday care, in a separate building which shares the playground and playing fields with the school.

It's not hugely pushy academically, but it does seem to challenge every child, to encourage them to take risks, fail and try again, and to give good support to those who need it.

The school is constrained by the national curriculum, which is a shame. Foreign languages aren't taught in KS1 and aren't taught especially well at KS2, but as we have family members who are native speakers of French, Spanish, Italian, German and Cantonese, I'm not all that bothered about languages at school, when we can Skype from home.Music provision isn't great - DD learn the violin, but there isn't an on-site orchestra at primary level, although there are a local classical orchestra and fiddle group for primary children.

If I had unlimited wealth, I would still send her to that school. At secondary level, I would be more torn - our local comprehensive is outstanding, gets excellent results, provides lots of enrichment activities etc, but is very big, and in an ideal world I would probably want to have a free choice between the outstanding comprehensive, the local Catholic comprehensive which has less stellar results but is really strong in the arts and humanities and the independent Quaker school which is strong academically and has a lovely ethos. All three are very good schools and would be perfect for different children.

Yes, but is it posh?

No. To the best of my knowledge there are no aristocratic parents there at all. There is a genuinely wide social mix, with parents of children in DD's class ranging from ones owning million pound homes (Yorkshire, so this is really expensive for a house) to travellers living on the local site, but there are only a couple of really posh streets in the catchment area, and most of the properly posh locals live in the countryside with lots of land and horses, or in a slightly different part of town where the two main city independent schools are based.

I would say, as it's a general question, that it's the difference between being a customer and a service user. Our local state primaries seem very good, but do they care about our wrap around care needs or our desire for DD to be prepared for 11+? No, because the government is the customer, not us. OP, the costs of private school sound rather cheap where you are, so if your DH is keen and you like the school, you could consider it.

Yes, I'm thankful (for many reasons!) that we haven't ended up in London. This would not be a discussion we could be having in a more expensive area.

The posts on this thread are a good example of how difficult it is to generalise about schools. Many of the things some people seem to think are the preserve of private schools are equally the case at my kids' state school (and many others) - class sizes of 20-25 with a teacher plus a full time TA in every class, teachers and heads who are more than happy to talk about your child at any time, after school clubs, high academic standards, many children working well above expectations, etc, etc, etc.

if grades are your thing, my sons school is a mixture of good and outstanding. A large number of children got level 5/6 in year 6 with 9 of the 29 kids being offered grammar places. For all the focus on academic work in juniors, the infant years should be really play based. Making local friends at a local school is one big positive advantage.

Talking about state schools. Going private/grammar at secondary is better. Or better still, financing the kids degrees

An alternative would be excellent state schools, local friends, lots extra stuff (maths tutoring and activities), invest in a buy to let as a way of saving for the kids degrees/house deposits.

The big and crucial difference between state and private is state schools can't inflate attainment or just say what parents want to hear.If you're afflicted with an apathetic or mediocre school as regards pushing all kids to the best of their ability it's obvious.

In state you can spend 100s of 1000s and easily be fooled into thinking you're getting something superior.

Kind of pointless thread.You get good and bad private schools.You get good and bad state schools. You can't make sweeping assumptions with either sector.

If it was me I'd research,research,research state options and put the huge amount of money towards travel,enrichment,mortgage deposit and uni funds.A child with an excellent state education,extensive travel experience,a mortgage deposit and no student debt is truly privileged imvho.

Sorry that should be private as regard spending 100s of 1000s.

Tis early!

I don't think it's a pointless thread. It's given me lots to think about, so thank you everyone.

But you can only base your decision on what schools you have to hand.

However rich I was I wouldn't spend money on any of the private options near us.If they were state I wouldn't send my dc to them either.

There will be no benefits to a private primary if it's shit.Small classes mean sfa if the teaching is mediocre and the school so tight for funds they don't even have interactive white boards.

You can't put all private schools under one umbrella,ditto all state.

Yes, Seagulls, I'm aware of all the points you make. I don't know how many times I've said "yes I know we need to visit the schools" and obviously we want to send our children to the best school for them. I have been trying to get my head around what, in general terms, we would and would not be paying for if we went private, and this thread has been very helpful in that regard, and in terms of giving me things to look for/ask about when we do visit the schools

Private schools are not always better than State schools. Some can be worse.

You need to look at the specifics. What does P private school offer? Grounds, subjects, specialist staff, child care, facilities. Where does it send its students afterwards (if it is Eton and you want the local Grammar there is a problem).
What does S state school offer? Grounds, subjects, specialist staff, child care, facilities. Where do its pupils go next? (Does it get them into the grammar?)

Finally your Ds is only 3 - if he has problems which school could help him most, and at what cost? What is your back up plan to the grammar school? With both schools could you afford to pay for extra help for him?

Re sending kids,no private school guarantees anything.

Interactive white boards are not top of my list when choosing a school!
I don't think I have ever seen an interactive white board at my DCs school.

Just used as an example.

Friend of mine at a struggling private was truly shocked at the resources my dc enjoy at their pretty average state primary.

Cake do you go to local playgroups? Do your children go to nursery? I think as you already realise, you have to visit the schools but if you get talking to parents locally, they'll give you the low down on how they've found it, good and bad, whether their children have excelled / been happy. Do your research re catchment areas / admission criteria (e.g. whether you attend church etc) and see exactly which state school you're likely to be offered. Visit the preps. Strike up conversations in the park / Costa Coffee / playgroup / soft play and just find out what other parents think. It is really an awful decision, obviously wanting to do the best for your son, but you are in a great position in that you have amazing choices on your doorstep, whether that be state or private .