What are the general advantages of private over state primary education? How do we choose?

[cakesonatrain]

DS is 3 so school applications are obviously in mine and DH's minds. We are moving house soon, and the new area has excellent state primaries, and grammar schools. We can afford to go private for primary (the school we're considering will cost a smidge less than nursery fees).
Obviously every individual school is different and has different pros and cons. But are there any generally acknowledged benefits of a small private primary?
I think what I want to understand is, what would we actually be buying for our 2 grand a term or whatever it is, over and above/different from what the children would get from the excellent state school?

I know we need to go and visit the schools, but obviously we can't do that right now. What sorts of things should we be looking for/asking about when we do visit?

Can you give us any help in deciding? DH is very pro-private, my position is something like "I'm happy to spend the money if we are really buying an advantage and significantly better experience for our children, but imagine what we could do with that sort of money if we decided not to spend it on school fees"

[TheWordFactory]

I can speak with hindsight, as my DC are now big fat teenagers staring down the barrel of their GCSEs .

These are the benefits they experienced at their prep school;

• small class sizes (15), within a large year cohort (60), so best of both worlds.
  
• lots and lots of beautiful outdoor space, used daily.
  
• full time TAs.
  
• daily sport, taught by proper sports staff.
  
• weekly sports matches from year 4 (IIRC).
  
• proper MFL from an early age.
  
• Latin.
  
• rigorous and flexible setting introduced in English and maths from Y3, other subjects from Y4/5.
  
• subject specialist teachers in all subjects from Y4
  
• music taken seriously, so choirs, orchestras, wind bands, jazz bands etc
  
• excellent facilities - tennis courts, gymnasium, footie pitches, swimming pool (freezing), science labs, art rooms, music rooms, theatre.
  
• lots and lots of extra curricular activities, beofre school, during lunch and after school. Too numerous to list here.
  
• proper fresh food prepared on site by the kitchen staff. Everyone sits down for a cooked meal together, including staff.
  
• little interest in SATs.
  
• high levels of parental commitment to the school (both in terms of tiem and resources).
  

-homework.
-regular exams.

• long holidays.
  

Downsides, of which there are always some.

• cost!
  
• children from a wide catchment.
  
• parents expected to play an integral part in school life and their DC's education (I didn't mind this, but some prefer not to do this).

[cakesonatrain]

Wow, thank you for lots of detailed responses. I will read properly later.

[AmberTheCat]

The grand educational theory that you're looking for to help make your decision doesnt exist, I'm afraid, OP - I think MN may close down if it did! There is evidence that suggests that, on average, individual children do as well, in terms of exam results, in state schools as they would in private schools. So for me the decision (assuming you're wealthy enough to have a choice), comes down to a) your own views on the ethics of private education, and b) whether you most value the less tangible benefits provided by potential private schools, or those provided by potential state schools.

[Hakluyt]

It seems to me that the big difference- assuming that neither the state or the private school are either really top flight or really awful- is the built in, pre paid for extra curricular activities. Word is talking about Westminster- and, frankly very few private schools are Westminster. There is another poster whose child is at Winchester- ditto. If you expect that from AN Other Private school you are going to be disappointed. It our old friend Stqndard Deviation again.

[cakesonatrain]

Hmm, I'm less convinced private is the best option the more I read...

[TheWordFactory]

Hak I'm not talking about Westminster.

I'm talking about the prep my DC attended...

[TheWordFactory]

Not a big headline prep, either.

But, yes, rather different to your average small private primary, I guess. Twice the cost for starters!

[cakesonatrain]

So if the research shows that state results are as good, for each child, as private results, how come the private sector is doing so well?! Are they just selling the idea that it's better?

[Hakluyt]

Because it's not all about results. I do/did a lot with my children that, frankly, if they went to private schools I wouldn't have to do because it would all be included in the price.

[cakesonatrain]

So the private schools are filling in for parents who can't take their children to music/swimming/lacrosse lessons and don't have time to read with them? I can do that for less than 2 grand a term.

[Hakluyt]

You might say that, cake- I couldn't possibly comment.........

[Sunflower123456]

With the money you save, you can buy a lot of happy quality time for the whole the family every year.

[MollyBdenum]

Or for the cost of independent school from reception to university you could give each child a mortgage-free house on the day they leave school.

[BeansieBeansieBeansie]

I have a summer born boy, and we were offered a place at a good local state school but chose to go private because he would have got lost in a class of 30.

He is the only one of our friends that have gone private, and reading between the lines I suspect he has done far, far better in a class of 15 with two full time members of staff than he would have done in the state school.

He has been given far more time and space to grow and learn. He had also, as a 7 year old, had far more opportunities than his peers at the highly competitive state schools in the town.

I think the decision will become a lot easier once your DC get older because you will find you really choose the school to fit your child.

And there is a difference between an academically average child who has been to a good state school, and an averagely academic child who has been to a good private school. It's harsh to say, but if you give a child more and better opportunities, they will benefit.
I say this as someone who did very well academically from a pretty feeble state school looking at the experience my DH had at a good private school.

[TheWordFactory]

Beansie tells the truth.

At DD's mixed ability private school, the average or low ability girls do absurdly well in their GCSE and A levels.

For a non-selective school, the results are incredibly good. Better usually than the nearest grammar school.

The parents of those average/low ability girls have had value out of every penny IMVHO. What's not to like? .

[TheWordFactory]

As for the very bright, well IMVHO and IME, they fair far better in a super-selective environment, and that's hard to come by in the state system, sadly.

You often have to pay.

[AmberTheCat]

Do they continue to do absurdly well in later life though, Word? Are those improved exam results a means to an end, or an end in themselves?

[TheWordFactory]

Yes, amber they seem to.

The university destinations are, again, very impressive given the ability spectrum. And what they do with their lives is equally so (we get a lot of 'old girl' info - it's that type of school).

I think it just goes to show that you don't need to be super-bright to do well. You need to apply yourself and have great teachers and motivators around you.

I think one thing we do far too easily in the UK, is overplay raw intelligence. We seem to think that is what matters. Other cultures don't accept that necessarily, or at least not as easily.

The HT's view is that girls who are happy, fully integrated in school life, receiving on message support at home can do far better than they think they can. And the years (and results) have proved her right.

[BeansieBeansieBeansie]

They are a means to an end, really.

The good results open doors that may not otherwise opened to them.

They also will have been given more opportunities to try activities that they may enjoy for the rest of their lives.

[BeansieBeansieBeansie]

And I agree that a good private school will prepare children more for the "head down, get on with it" parts of lifeore than a good state school, just because more is expected from the child in the independent sector.

[TheWordFactory]

Yes, all exams are a means to an end really, aren't they?

They take us through to the next round...

[Hakluyt]

"And there is a difference between an academically average child who has been to a good state school, and an averagely academic child who has been to a good private school. It's harsh to say, but if you give a child more and better opportunities, they will benefit"

As I keep saying, of course there are more opportunities in private schools. There is lots more money. But you can give your child those opportunities if you have the time, money and inclination. So most of the children who go to private school would have the same opportunities if th didn't- it just easier in a private school.

[TheWordFactory]

Hak it is extremely difficult/impossible for parents to do it all themselves, no matter how many resources.

A parent has one set of hands and only so much time and energy. Plus the opportunities have to be there, on hand. Often they aint!

You hear all the time on MN parents of todlers saying how easy it will be to just 'top up' state education. And I think, really? You're gonna drag your schoolaged child to umpteen tutoring sessions after school? In addition to all the sport, art, drama and music, that you can magically access?

Well good luck with that.

And if you think you can do that with a teen...

[TheWordFactory]

I mean I am an uber involved parent. There is nothing I won't do for my DC's education, if I can.

I'm also super-energetic, rich, oh and I work very flexibly. And I live in central London part of the week.

There is not a cat in hell's chance that I could have topped up my DC's education to match their private schools at either prmary or secondary. It would have been impossible!

I know my limitations ...

[cakesonatrain]

We haven't really got the time to wait until DS is older though - we'll be applying for schools this year.