So long St. Mediocre

[PastSellByDate]

Well it is an end of an era.

I joined MN in 2010 because we'd had about 6 months of trying to get help from the school with our struggling DD1 (May Y2 - slow reader/ barely able to add to 20/ unable to subtract) and the school had pretty much repeatedly told DH & I our expectations were too high - topping it off with the dreadful HT stating:

'What you need to understand Mrs. PSBD, is your DD1 just isn't that bright'.

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Do I have issues? Oh boy do I ever!

Have I lost faith in state education - totally!

Low brow

Uninspired

Chaotic

doesn't sum it up.

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But here on MN - I have found help. Many teachers & parents have made brilliant suggestions - leading to great websites/ resources/ ideas which have really helped.

DD1 finished Y2 KS1 SATs at NC L1 across the board. She finished Y6 KS2 SATs at NC L5/6. That would never have happened without Mumsnet members answering my questions/ giving their advice to help me help my DD1.

My advice to any who feel in their gut that something is amiss/ the school just isn't doing enough - stick to your guns.

Battling a school isn't easy - and I wouldn't advise it. But know that you can do more at home. The internet hosts a wealth of resources that can really make a difference and MN is brilliant as a place to come and moan/ rant/ scream HELP!!!!!!!!!!! On MN you can vent your anger (which is useful) - and get some positive help.

I know I've had my tiffs with some on PRIMARY TALK over the years - but part of that is that we parents only experience the education system in our small little corners of the UK. What happens in NI/ Wales/ Scotland or England - or even within cities - can be night and day to each other.

I think as parents we need to push for more consistency.

Just as we would expect a medical professional to handle notification of cancer with seriousness and compassion - and would understandably expect information to help us digest the diagnosis and explain our next options...

We need teachers to move toward that kind of professionalism - to be able to tell a parent/ agree with a parent that their child is struggling and provide useful guidance on what to do next.

Leaving a parent to it - is in no way 'professional'.

I take the point that not all parents will take so much interest - but I suspect more parents care about their child's education than teaching professionals give us credit for - and most parents - if wisely directed to useful resources/ methods/ techniques - will follow that guidance and can be a real asset to teachers - putting in those extra hours at home - and may just turn a struggling pupil into a successful one!

Thanks & happy summer everybody!

PSBD

[Bonsoir]

Soveryupset - I agree very strongly with the confidence boosting effect of private education and educational opportunities.

[Retropear]

Bloody expensive way to get some confidence.

Maybe your dd would have gained the same confidence in state secondary Sovery.A friend of mine's son who is off to Cambridge gained bags of confidence at his state secondary and a Saturday job.

I will be ensuring my dc get a Sat job as soon as they can,there is nothing like dealing with the public to boost confidence.

[JaneParker]

(Re the £104k that includes a bonus which is not discretionary and she's a City lawyer and works very hard, probably much harder than most mumsnetters would want to work and I think she's good (although of course I'm her mother so I would say that...)

I am very relaxed about it all and the thread. I think paying 5 sets of school fees from my earnings is the loveliest nicest thing I can do from working very hard and planning a decent career. I feel very lucky. However as I said above many parents are more than happy with state schools so that's good - 50% of children at the best universities come from the 93% of children at state schools although that does include an awful lot from rather posh state grammars and comps where you attend almost by houseprice so not exactly all comers standard comps.

[Bonsoir]

Is your daughter OK about you advertising the value of her remuneration package on the internet?

[Kimaroo]

I hadn't realised how much I'd missed all your sweeping statements about the lower classes. It's amazing how you manage to encapsulate so many in one post.

[Justtoobad]

I'd like to live on a kibbutz/commune/family self-sufficient farm/Marxist retreat....anyone joining me?

[proudmama2772]

I don't think private schools hold a monopoly on helping kids gain confidence and work through issues impacting their education. I've had a state teacher come to my house to engage with my selectively mute 5 year old and get her talking.

Her current secondary is brilliant. The individuals who work in these schools are so devoted to young people and improving their lives.

[teacherwith2kids]

DD gains confidence from her extracurricular activity - dance, which she does to a very high standard with children from a mix of schools, as the in-house private school provision for dance is so poor compared to the community provision.

[Baulks slightly at the idea of her being any more confident... I think she'd verge on the obnoxious. She can speak and dance solo in front of an audience of up to 400, has done so since she was 7, and takes both success and failure with equanimity]

DS gains confidence from music (again, performs in front of large numbers) and sport (thinks nothing of being in goal for a cup final penalty shootout ibn front of a large crowd at a professional stadium). You'd never guess that a [state] school managed to get him to this point from acute anxiety and selective mutism....

[RaisinBoys]

Jane are you really as big a twit as you sound? You come across as a pompous arse full of condescension. What is it, a lack of vitamins due to having to live off baked beans?

No one cares about your daughter's bonus. No one cares how many school fees you pay.

Parents make choices for their children; if you're happy with yours, great! Be happy.

Me thinks though protests too much!

[RaisinBoys]

thou

[pippitysqueakity]

I .....am lost for words janeparker.
But totally agree Retro, my children have a confidence instilled from home and reinforced by school. Much cheaper and equally valid.

[clam]

Do we have xenia back in town?

[diamondage]

mrz you are somewhat misrepresenting the research though (as did much of the media).

The difference identified between state and independent only applied to students achieving ABB and BBB at A level. Where students achived higher grades, e.g. AAA or A* combos there was no difference in the degrees achieved.

This is not to dismiss the identified 7 - 10% (can't remember exact figures) of state school students with ABB / BBB who go on to outperform their equivalent private school counterparts, however it's not the whole picture that "state school pupils outperform private pupils" would seem to imply.

[nigerdelta]

No no no, Clam, how could you possibly...

Come back Jane. Everyone has to admit she livens up a thread. Bit like admiring the body art on view in the public swimming pools.

[diamondage]

PSBD - huge congrats to you and your DD . It's a shame you had to go to these lengths but just goes to show what can be done from a L1s at end of KS2 - thank god you didn't listen to the 'your daughter's a bit dim' copouts and instead helped her flourish.

Long may your helpful posts to other parents, with struggling DCs, reaching out on this thread continue! Poorly articulated but am dog tired and starting to flag

[mrz]

I'm not misrepresenting anything diamondage just presenting the research for others to read and discuss

[diamondage]

"Two new reports confirm that state school pupils outperform independent ones at university"

"State school pupils outperform privately-educated pupils with the same A levels at university – that was the conclusion of two university internal reports discovered by the Guardian using the Freedom of Information Act."

But as someone who has read the research I'm sure you know that by presenting headline style information you are manipulating the data. Newspapers like to present their headlines inaccurately for sensation, I presume you omited adding the all important 'some', or to expand on the inaccurate headlines, because it suited the message you wanted to impart?

Not that I think private school teachers are any better (and teacher quality is the number 1 factor) - give state schools class sizes of 20 or less and they'd be transformed (at least I think this one thing would make the biggest difference).

The research is interesting but given that it only applied to some pupils within a specific A-level outcome band more research would be needed to understand why. And making out it applies across the board is disingenuous.

[Soveryupset]

My dd1 also did and still does music both to a high standard and was in shows since she was 3!

However she only gained confidence after a few months at her new school. I did say that most children are confident or seem to gain confidence in many other ways, but I am very grateful to the school for helping my dd1. We clearly didn't manage it, maybe we are just rubbish parents.

[Soveryupset]

I meant music and dance

[mrz]

As someone who read the reports you will know the words are quotes and not my opinion diamondage

Have you also read the Sutton Trust and OECD research?

[rickinghorse]

My friend is an admissions tutor at a Russell group university. She says there is a marked difference between state school children and privately educated children seeking places on her course. The private school children tend to be taught to think around and beyond the A-level syllabus and are more independent thinkers. The university recognises this and sets lower offers to state school applicants.
However, she says that after two years in university the difference has evened out and it is no longer possible to guess the educational background from the work the students produce.

[Bonsoir]

The OECD PISA research is dangerous and flawed.

[mrz]

So finding that independent schools produce better results is flawed Bonsoir?

[Bonsoir]

Stop producing grossly oversimplified sound bites, mrz. The OECD data (and I am in regular conversation with people who work on it at the highest levels) is out of control. It is best to ignore it.

[mrz]

Interesting