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Original poster

DD has dropped two sub levels since moving school......is this normal?

29 replies

emonslemons · 07/07/2014 08:58

DD 7 (currently yr2) moved school back in the end of March. I had a meeting with her new teacher who said she is currently working at level 2c in maths and literacy and 2a for reading.
In her previous school we had parents evening before we moved.The teacher said she was currently working at 2b for literacy and reading and a 2c for maths and she was expected to be working at level 2a for reading and literacy and 2b for maths by the end of the year.

My main concern is that she is now considered below average and previously she was getting on fine.

Should I be concerned? I'm thinking this should all just settle over time as we moved area and she no longer really sees her old school friends.

Please share your experiences.....any advice welcome!

THanks for reading x

OP posts:
DeWee · 07/07/2014 09:43

It probably isn't her slipping back, it's probably just the teacher's marking.

Out of interest the school she moved from wasn't an infant, and you're now at a primary? Infants sometimes overmark (as they are judged on KS! results, and don't have to show progress in KS2) and primaries are known to undermark (so they have better progress at KS2 which is where they tend to be judged)

It is worth asking about the literacy, along the lines of "little bit concerned, as the old school said she was working at 2b, and you're now saying 2c, so has she actually gone backwards?"

It may be the other school over marked, this school undermarks. Or just that she works in an unfamiliar/different way, so the new school is perhaps not awarding her with as much as she should be.

proudmama2772 · 07/07/2014 09:56

Hi emonslemons

The same thing happened to my ds and I don't think it is uncommon. The sublevels are fairly inaccurate and every school works/assesses the curriculum a little differently. I also don't think the school is assessed - held accountable - for inwardly bound students in the same manner as students who have been with them for over 2 years. If they assess them a little lower on entry, they are rewarded more greatly for the progress they achieve.

You could ask the teacher which points on the APP grid she needs to solidify before moving to the next level.

Don't worry too much about it. They will want to move her as far as she can go, but don't want to be under the gun if she doesn't get there IYSWIM

Original poster
emonslemons · 07/07/2014 10:52

Thanks for the replies. DeWee she moved from a primary to another primary. But I personally noticed the new school have different expectations.....a big one is joint up handwriting which DD has been struggling with! I think perhaps it's sort of knocking her confidence.

She hasn't reached her targets from the previous school which at this point would have been 2a in literacy and reading and 2b for maths.......so I feel she's two sub levels behind what was expected.

The new teacher also mentioned she thought DD was a 1a when she arrived at the school. Shock especially because she was already supposedly a 2b in most things.

Sorry I made a mistake she actually moved school just after the Easter holidays which also means she never missed a single day of school.

I was wondering in your experiences do your children catch up eventually......although I do realise we are at the end of the year now!

OP posts:
Original poster
emonslemons · 07/07/2014 10:54

Sorry proudmama........what's an APP grid?

OP posts:
GhoulWithADragonTattoo · 07/07/2014 11:23

Maybe meet with the teacher to have a chat. It may be that she still settling into school and hasn't done her best work at the new school yet. Or it could just be the new teacher has higher standards. Best way to find out is have a chat and ask for clarification of what they intend to do to get her producing her best work next year.

proudmama2772 · 07/07/2014 11:32

Assessing Pupil Progress grid. Most schools use it - ithink. So if you ask the school to see it they should show it to you.

For example, numeracy has 4 (or 5 attainment targets). The final 2a assessment is kind of an overall weighted average with numbers and something else being the primary. The grid has a column for each target. I wish I had some links for you, PastSellbyDate is great with these. If you search the threads you should find some links.

You can see for yourself how rough the assessment is and each school may have different standards before a student is deemed solid and ready to go onto to the next level of an objective.

It's so much easier for kids to catch up in level 3 I think. They're young and growing so quickly. They move leaps and bounds. I can't honestly say that my kids did catch eventually without tutoring and lot of outside work. It's easier to catch them up around 2nd half of year 4 and doesn't stress them out as much as it might a younger child.

Please don't worry too much. No system of education is perfect and this one definitely is a foobar. I'd prefer if they recorded assessment up until end of year 4 and used this to determine Year 6 targets instead of basing an academic plan for a child on their 6/7 performance. Balmy

proudmama2772 · 07/07/2014 11:38

Oh I'm sure you won't but please don't let your daughter know you have any concerns. There's nothing wrong with asking the school for the details. I wish the school had provided you with lists of what your daughter still needs to be secure in level 2.

MotleyCroup · 07/07/2014 13:12

We have an extremely similar situation.

We moved DS (7) in Y2 back in March from one Primary to another. We've yet to received his report (due sometime this week) but I'm wondering whether the move PLUS the new teacher assessing differently may have an effect on his levels. Old school were expecting him to get to Level 3 in Maths and Literacy but I'm having my doubts as to whether the new school will mark this high, he's new after all and from what I've read on MN it's better for schools to mark lower.

Will let you know the outcome but it's good to know the questions to ask, the APP grid for example. Is this something a teacher won't mind you asking about or will they look at you at bit Hmm - meaning is this something that is an internal thing for the schools?

CrispyFB · 07/07/2014 15:55

This happened with DD1, twice in fact. She moved schools twice in six months in Y1 (she was on a waiting list for a nearer primary for those six months after we relocated) and she seemed to drop a sublevel each time!

I think I may even have posted here about it as it was a little concerning. But I think it is just down to individual teacher and school bias. She's not been treated any differently because of it as far as I can tell over a year later and I'm pretty sure she's hadn't plateaued for Y1 either.

Original poster
emonslemons · 07/07/2014 16:39

Crispy......what do you mean by school bias?......I'm just surprised at the differences between the schools. Is it really possible to have such huge differences between schools?

I've asked the old school to send me her books as they had agreed to do so before we left. I hope I receive them before the end of year so I can show them to her new teacher.

I'm also thinking to ask her previous teacher to write a mini report as DD does struggle with concentration and confidence......I'm wondering if things haven't been fully set up to support DD's needs.

OP posts:
Iownafourinchporsche · 07/07/2014 20:59

It's early days in her new school. Maybe they haven't quite got a grip on her ability while last school were a bit enthusiastic

Original poster
emonslemons · 07/07/2014 22:10

I don't think the last school were enthusiastic......as She was level 1a across the board at the end of year 1......so I'm pretty sure either the new school have it wrong or she just isn't fully settled there yet. Especially because I could see her flourishing in her previous school.

OP posts:
proudmama2772 · 08/07/2014 00:25

It's so frustrating, but parents have little recourse with school assessments. I've even brought in external tests and tutors have contacted the class teacher.

All they say is that it has to be performed within the school, even though conceded ds has ability. The issue is that the child doesn't focus in the classroom well enough, so even though they may be capable and have actually attained the level, outside of school that is not in school.

one teachers perception of a child makes all the difference and the parent has no recourse. I think a lot of it has to do with the grouping. Teacher decides who is in his/her bottom set, sets all their targets pretty close together at 2c and that's that.

Original poster
emonslemons · 08/07/2014 14:07

Yes proud mama I totally see what your saying! I'm wondering how a teacher can truly and fairly support and assess each child based on the individual needs in a class of thirty! I can barely manage with just the two!!!
And I absolutely believe for some children concentration not ability is the big factor at play.....question is what do the teachers do to help this? Also If I'm not mistaken you can not move up to the higher levels if you need support with the work.....I think the teacher was saying?!

OP posts:
Floggingmolly · 08/07/2014 14:16

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proudmama2772 · 08/07/2014 18:16

emonslemons - thank that for that insight. If my daughter was assessed lower because she wouldn't do the work independently in class that makes sense. It's hard to understand the assessment process.

None of it would matter to me if it wasn't for the boosters at KS2 for kids who achieved a level 3. I'd like my kids to get to a 5 if they have the ability, but I guess its not really worth worrying about. They can speed up their progress when they're older and more mature.

mrz · 08/07/2014 18:50

emonslemons you need to talk to your child's teacher. Ask him/her what level your child was when they arrived in March and how does this compare with previous school's assessments.

There will be no levels in September just a whole new curriculum and testing system.

LittleMissGreen · 08/07/2014 21:47

Is it possible in writing that she hasn't had time to show all the writing styles yet that are needed to award the higher levels? If say, they have been working on extended writing then she won't have shown she can write a list, or a letter, or a factual piece etc.

Original poster
emonslemons · 09/07/2014 11:09

Mrz her teacher at the new school said she thought she was level 1 a in everything when she arrived. But in her previous school she was already assessed at level 2b for literacy and reading and 2c for maths.this was back in January I think. She was expected to reach level 2a in literacy and reading by the end of the year. And a 2b for maths even though the teacher recognises she had the ability to do everything in maths.....but her reason for not reaching higher levels is she doesn't get on with the work without adult encouragement which her teacher said was common for her age.

Littlemissgreen they have written different types of things .....I think the reason she isn't implementing what she know is that in her new school they expect all writing joined up but DO doesn't know how to. So I think she is concentrating really hard on joining and not on doing everything else.

OP posts:
rollonthesummer · 09/07/2014 13:10

Do schools still use APP?!

mrz · 09/07/2014 17:58

Perhaps it would have been a good idea to look at why the school was saying 1a in March as it seems the new school were/are of the opinion that her previous levels were incorrect.

mrz · 09/07/2014 17:59

My school and many others have never used APP rollonthesummer.

mrz · 09/07/2014 18:00

It was scrapped back in 2009 but some schools continued to use it.

Original poster
emonslemons · 09/07/2014 21:33

Yes Mrz.....This is why I need to take her books from previous school and compare and discuss with current teacher.....the teacher said she was 1a however in the same breath she did the sats exam that same week she started and got 2c.....so not quite sure why?! This is why I would prefere to bring the books into the picture.

OP posts:
mrz · 09/07/2014 21:35

why not look at the books from her current class that is what her assessment is based upon after all