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Level 6 Reading and Numeracy

62 replies

RnB · 04/07/2014 06:48

I was wondering if anyone knows the percentage of children who achieved Level 6 in BOTH reading and numeracy last year? I can't seem to find the stats... Thanks

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Justtoobad · 05/07/2014 19:20

Yes too, to party (pls go for top job in education).

Toomanyhouseguests · 05/07/2014 19:24

Wow! Loving this thread. Agree so much with all three posts above from PastSellByDate, Tiggytape, and PartyStress. All are different, but really, the way education is set up at the moment, the whole thing is a mass of confusion and contradictions, so in my mind at least, all three are spot on.

reup · 05/07/2014 22:34

I agree with partystress about the different emphasis now. My sons school had after school boosters for level 6 kids but my son who had made his 2 levels progress from ks1 so was not given extra help. He started from a very low level and made no progress in y5 according to the data. He can't spell and has a scribe so got no interventions to help. But the schools data will look great.

Sadly chatting to an ex colleague in local secondary and she said their maths dep has been told to concentrate on the top children too.

RnB · 07/07/2014 07:04

Dreadful...how does this make any sense at all?

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lainiekazan · 07/07/2014 09:44

dd has been deemed a Level 6 by her teacher.

dd took the Level 6 Maths and English tests, but I am not confident she has passed the reading paper.

I obtained a couple of booklets to have a look at, and the mark scheme was inflexible. As others have mentioned, there is questioning on "author intent". I thought of an answer, looked at the "approved answer" and achieved nul points. But I thought I was right! At the very least I would have thought the question was, well, open to question. When dd looked at the paper she came up with the same answer as I did and therefore scored nothing. So there are no marks for arguing, supporting your comment etc - only for the right answer. I guess this makes it easier to mark the paper, but makes no allowances for a candidate who has written a well-reasoned, well-written but "wrong" answer.

ElephantsNeverForgive · 07/07/2014 22:03

It doesnt make any sense at all. L6 papers should never have been brought back.

Schools should be encoraged to stretch their brightest (and tutored for 11+, private school entry) pupils and broaden their learning. Not drill them for another test.

Of course L6's are easy to count and for ofsted to record, good enrichment and wider experiences aren't.

tiggytape · 07/07/2014 22:18

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amistillsexy · 07/07/2014 22:31

So, DS1 has just come home with his Y5 report. He is working at a 5b in reading at the moment (he only dropped 3 marks on one of the test papers he did, which I believe was a Y5 optional paper, so only went up to level 5).

I'm wondering how he can make the expected 2 sublevels of progress between now and his Y6 SATs if L6 is so hard to achieve?

Is there a recognition that this rate of progress won't happen once a child reaches a level 5 in reading, and that Ds's level will stick at 5a in y6, or will his next teacher be cursing his Y5 teacher for levelling so highly as she struggles to get him to achieve the elusive Level6?

DialsMavis · 07/07/2014 22:34

This is so interesting, DS did all 3 level 6 papers. I had read that reading and literacy are extremely hard, & told DS that I wasn't going to make him do any extra work, but would facilitate him doing extra work if he wanted to (school did a few booster sessions for maths only). But now I feel bad that I may have held him back at secondary school by buying the whole 'SATs are for the school not the pupil line'. Is that the case for all schools? DS new HOY told him that as long as he gets level 5's he will be put in high ability sets... I'm confused Sad

tiggytape · 08/07/2014 07:55

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sittingatmydeskagain · 08/07/2014 08:30

Ami - I asked this very same question in a governors meeting a few weeks ago. Our current year 5 has a group of around 5 children all currently mid to high level 5.

I was told that, as progress is measured across key stage 2, and these children would have been level 3 at end year 2, they had already 14/16 points progress and so there was no worry about a bottle neck. Year 6 teacher will teach level 6 work, as she would do with top level 5 children anywat.

PastSellByDate · 08/07/2014 09:59

I've found the whole Level 6 'as standard option' thing interesting to watch unfold.

When DD2 was in Year 2 a friends' older son wanted to sit the L6 paper in maths. The kid was bored out of his skull and learning more complicated maths at home. At school he spent his day helping other children (effectively an unpaid TA). He hated school so much the mother had to virtually drag him in - most mornings they rowed down the entire street.

The school (this was 2010) refused to allow him to sit the L6. But he was absolutely adamant he wanted the challenge. So the Mum rang the LEA and found out he could. The LEA rang the school and it was arranged that he could sit the L6, which he passed with flying colours apparently. Now for this family and for this child - it was about demonstrating that he had the higher ability. He wanted to argue with his very mediocre senior school that he should be allowed to skip Y7/Y8 classes and join Year 9 - which in the end (partly as a result of his scores) he was allowed to do.

At some point (?2012) L6 SATs were officially reintroduced and we entered the era of L5 becoming 'the new Level 4'. St. Mediocre was very slow to absorb this fact - continuing to tell parents that NC L4 was a very high standard and/or that staff only were legally required to teach to NC L4.

It is this second statement that I totally object to - and if the introduction of NC L6 testing at KS2 SATs means that schools now have to demonstrate capability to teach at this higher level - my feeling is all well and good - because for years children were more or less left to stop & stay put once NC L4 was attained at St. Mediocre.

And to add cynicism to this whole process - now St. Mediocre has voluntarily entered 50% of their Y6 cohort for NC L6 testing. Results are out today - and I don't know whether the school will supply their overall results to parents or just individual/ national results. However, eventually (?December 2014) the school's results will be revealed. I can only go by what DD1 brought home, what little work I saw in school workbooks at parent teacher meetings, what DD1 says - but I'm not convinced this 'higher ability' cohort actually was regularly working to L6 and I suspect a very low percentage of pupils (14 sat L6 Reading/ 16 sat L6 SPAG & Maths) actually went on to achieve L6.

I'll let you know in December.

-------

The point of this long story is that schools should be capable of stretching more able pupils into L5, even L6. I doubt our school was alone in taking the view that they just had to get as many as possible over NC L4 threshold and really their job was to focus on bringing NC L3 kids in Years 5/6 up to NC L4. A lot of kids spent KS2 upper bored out of their skulls - effectively doing busy work.

The reality of changes - reporting % making NC L4b+/ reporting % making NC L5+ - is that schools can no longer ignore upper ability children.

I totally agree that struggling children need help - and this can take up a lot of time/ energy - and understand that schools are really being stretched to be all things to all people at the moment. But... I am glad to see that more able pupils aren't left to just stew for a few years until they start senior school. I personally think it's a very wasteful approach - of talent/ interest/ good will toward school/ etc... - but I also think it can lead to some really negative behaviour patterns (not regularly doing work/ not respecting teachers/ not being challenged or stretched and finding that when you are stretched or challenged it's unusual or even unacceptable, etc...)

dizzyday07 · 08/07/2014 13:50

My Yr4 DD came home last night with her school report and scored 4b across the board (with 4b+ in reading). The accompanying paperwork states this is the expected level for the end of Yr6 so I am hoping that they won't just forget about her now!

The HT made a big thing in assembly after the current Yr6's had finished their SATs about they weren't the type of school that did nothing but coach for the tests etc (like apparently other local schools did) so I don't know if this means she doesn't think they are very important so doesn't put the effort in - or just that they came at it from a different angle because of the ability of that particular class. I will be interested in the results when they come out.

But do I as a parent have any I influence on pressurising the school to push my DD further up the levels if it turns out they are just letting her coast from now on?

tiggytape · 08/07/2014 14:20

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sittingatmydeskagain · 08/07/2014 14:53

Dizzy, what I have learned this year, as governor of a wonderful school which received a Require Improvement Ofsted because of writing progress, is that the thing schools have to show is progress, progress, progress! So, over key stage 2, at least 2 full levels - and we got a RI because we dodnt have enough making 14+ points, ie 2 and a third levels.

If they let children coast, Ofsted will soon pick it up and be visiting.

Toomanyhouseguests · 08/07/2014 15:21

Just curious here, does Ofsted expect a certain number of level 3s at the end of year 2? Assuming the year group is over 30 children and therefore you have a reasonable sample size.

Because, if not, the unscrupulous could simply depress scores at the end of KS1 to make progress at the end of KS2 look better.

DialsMavis · 08/07/2014 15:35

DS got his results today...
Level 5 in maths (he was expecting a 6) and level 6 in reading, writing and SPAG which I really wasn't expecting as I thought only the ones who had been coached would get it. Excuse my boast, I'm proud of him and didn't want to boast in RL and I thought I could maybe just about getaway with it on this thread.

lainiekazan · 08/07/2014 15:46

Well done your ds, DialsMavis. I know what you mean about the boasting! No grandparents here so there really is no one I can speak to about the dcs' spectacular achievements Grin

Aha - so the SATS results are out. I wonder how dd did...

BeerTricksPotter · 08/07/2014 16:37

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DialsMavis · 08/07/2014 16:46

Well done to your DS Beer! I don't know how many marks off a 6 DS maths was. I hope I
He isnt taking after me... I'm always almost really good at things

BeerTricksPotter · 08/07/2014 16:53

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RnB · 08/07/2014 19:00

Well done to your ds's Dials and Beer! Awesome result Grin

My ds's school only entered children I for reading and numeracy and he got Level 6 in numeracy but not reading. I'm super proud.

Interestingly my ds did scholarship exams for a top private school in January and his English Mark was far superior to his Maths...

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toomuchcricket · 08/07/2014 22:11

'Scuse my ignorance on this, but to "get" level 6 in Y6 SATS, does that imply a minimum of a 6a or a 6c?

If they're getting 5a in maths and 5b in Literacy at end of Y5, then does that imply they're in with a chance of Level 6 in their Year 6 SATS?

Iamnotminterested · 08/07/2014 22:20

ElephantsNeverForgive - 'schools should be encoraged to stretch their brightest ( and tutored for 11+, private school entry) pupils and broaden their learning. Not drill them for another test.'

What utter shite. DD neither lives in an area of 11+ madness, nor will she be attending a private school, why would she when her superb state primary are stretching her to achieve the best that she can be because she relishes the challenge and is working at a level far and away above the expected at the end of year 5, no teaching to the L6 test here for secondary entry, no artificial booster classes, just a clever, motivated child being encouraged to be the best she can be, and she's not alone in her school either.

purpleroses · 08/07/2014 22:28

The Y6 reading level 6 thing is strange. I have aDS in year 9 whose teacher thinks he's a 6a/7c. Younger DD (Y6) has like many kids been entered for the L6 reading but not for it. But I'm sure that DD's reading is ahead of DS's. They read the same (young adult fiction) books but DD can talk and write about them munch better. One of their scores must be wrong- unless the L6 test for Y6 is actually harder than the one used in secondary schools