Reading levels - I know, I'm sorry! Im a newbie

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

Sooo, ds starting school in September and I just went to the parents induction session. It was really great (yay!), I am so pleased having been quite anxious about it before I met them personally.

Alot of parents seemed keen to know what reading level the children should have attained before starting (?!), and by the end of the year, what is the average level expected.

The teachers cleverly answered the first question as 'it isn't relevant at the start of their learning journey'. And the second question she also tried to hedge on but when pushes she said Level 10.

I don't even know what scheme the school is using, but wondered if someone could tell me what 'level 20' might mean? And how does that fit in with all the phonics stuff?

I'm focused on the social and emotional transition for ds, so haven't given the academic learning much thought, so I feel like I should fill myself in a bit!

Thanks and I hope reading level stuff hasn't been utterly done to death :)

Perhaps I wrongly assumed parents would be insulted if I told them their child would start on book 1 then book 2 and progress through at their own pace [

Apologies for any confusion caused past.

Reading Recovery levels are not the same as the Reading Recovery Programme.

Whilst the programme is "aimed at children 6+ who are in the bottom 20%" the levels running from 0 all the way to 30 (in some schemes) are simply a way of grading reading books. Here is another link which shows the RR levels against national book band colours.

It's a reasonable deduction that if a school expects the class average / or expected level for the majority of children to be 10 at the end of reception they are not talking about white band. Therefore they are either using RR / PM levels to chart progress or have developed their own system.

The link in my first post (diamondage Fri 27-Jun-14 10:53:00) to this:

www.bassingbourn.cambs.sch.uk/bookbanding.pdf

has Reading Recovery Levels as the heading of the second column. I'm not sure how Reading Recovery fits with PM Benchmark, however their numbering system is the same. Perhaps the Reading Recovery Programme initially used PM books?

The first chart I linked to also has a column with phonics phases as well, but of course in reality this is a nonsense as look and say books in no way link to phonic phases.

MiscellaneousAssortment my intention in trying to answer your question wasn't to suggest that you need to do anything over and above the super environment you've discussed providing to your DS.

Reading levels only get done to death on MN because they are
a) confusing, and
b) are an easy way for parents to experience a linear type of progress.

Many schools (though by no means all) like to keep an element of mystery to the whole learning to read malarkey, and some parents feel understandably aggrieved when schools say they teach phonics but send home look and say books that their children can't decode (see mrz current thread about Ofsted's view on this topic).

You are not obliged to get on the reading bands band-wagon. Equally if you want to understand how your DS's school does things then that's ok too.

Thanks all very helpful, it does sound like they'd be using Reading Recovery but it seems a bit odd, I wonder why they'd use that as the first exposure to reading vs catching up or getting over problems?

DiamondAge don't worry I know you weren't suggesting I did anything else with ds at the moment, I was just wondering if people thought my approach is the best one given ds lack of confidence when it comes to 'proper learning'?

This thread has made me think, what's the right approach to help him specifically with his 'thing', to help reduce the risk of him getting really upset at school? It's not the actual learning I'm concerned about, but giving him the best chance of having positive experiences at school to start with to give him confidence?

I don't know if he'll be the same at school, as he is in nursery (not a preschool one but a long-day-lets-me-work-one he goes to three days a week at the moment). It started when they did the alphabet using worksheets, at age 3 (that had letters on and then dotted letters to trace) that he first did the 'withdraw and freeze in misery' thing. It went on for weeks and really changed his whole character he was so miserable, and took ages for me to work out what was happening, then more time to meet with the nursery and get to the bottom of it all.

I think it was partly because he didn't understand what to do, and that he saw others doing well when he couldn't even approach it. It got solved by him moving early up to the top class as it turned put they have a much better way of starting letters, like drawing them in sand, feeling sponge shapes etc and it took the terror away, as it wasnt that sit down and write on your own stuff. As to why they thought that was suitable in a class for 2.5-3.5 yr olds, heaven only knows, and it went back to learning through play as soon as he moved classes.

But it really knocked his confidence, and even now, at 4yrs 3 mths, he now will try once to do something then if it goes wrong (in his eyes - perfectionist) he'll cry and scribble over whatever it is or try and throw it away. And then he doesn't want to try again. Which means he doesn't get better at it and it confirms in his head that he can't do stuff.

So I'm thinking he has a few things to sort out:

• confidence (a general one Ive been doing lots of work on, but he does seem to be going through a rough patch poor sweetheart)
• practising (ie everybody needs to do it & it can be fun)
• perfectionism (he's so hard on himself and it's sad to watch him beat himself up about something I think is great)

And I'd been doing that by not doing any of the things that signal 'something to pass/ fail at', and working slot of confidence, and then just occasionally showing him how try and try again gets you to where you want to be - like when mummy is practicising (presentation for work, Pilates exercises, anything really!), I'll just draw his attention to it, and if he does do something where he's build it up over a few goes I also give tons of praise (even stuff like climbing a ladder etc).

But I guess I'm now thinking, thats all pretty indirect stuff, and should I start tackling some stuff head on, to give him a 'head start' at a few things, to try and break the pattern of him freakimg out? Or just trust that he'll be older by September, and the teacher is very experienced?

Hi all:

I think we were talking at cross-purposes - I definitely misunderstood diamondage's post which made it sound like the reading levels I posted via Lancashire grid for learning were recovery levels.

but having taken the time (which I didn't really have previously) to go back through everything again I can see that you were referring back to OP's (miscellaneous') first post mentioning level 20 - and meaning that a level 20 would be more like reading recovery.

I get completely that as a teacher deciding when to tell parents these things is tricky - you don't want to overload everybody with information, photocopying/ paper budgets may be running out at the end of the year, there's a likelihood parents will simply chuck whatever you give them now away and not hang on to it for the school year, etc.....

But....

as a parent who never received any of this for DD1....

Can I please make a heartfelt plea to teachers that at some point (at least the first parent/ teacher meeting (usually in the autumn) can you please tell parents a bit more about your reading/ phonetics & early maths programme & expectations (where notionally children should get to) and give us parents suggestions on how to help support you at home/ ideas of additional resources for consolidation/ extension of skills.

thanks....

PSBD

I run an after school session for parents ... on average 3 turn up!

My DS was a bit like that - reluctance to tackle something until he really felt he had it taped.

He struggled a bit in reception but hit his stride in Y1 and now has a reading age of 10 in Y3. Is your DS a summer birthday? That can make a big difference. I think what you are doing sounds exactly right and a good reception teacher will not want you to push him - gentle encouragement and a little bit of home practice regularly, plus lots and lots of fun sounds perfect to me!

DD currently finishing reception and we were advised that they aimed for them to be on phase 4 of the bug club sets by the end. Which is I think yellow or green band (lost plot). DD is achieving this, DS was nowhere near.

I think it is helpful to have a rough benchmark but on the other hand don't get desperately anxious if your child isn't quite there. If they're enjoying school, learning social and emotional skills and making progress then the overwhelming likelihood is the rest will come and if not there's plenty of time!

I have never paid any attention to reading levels or book bands, I just go by my child. Are they happy, enjoying learning and making progress.

With reading we have never forced the to read or put any pressure on. We always read to them abs look at books, magazine's, signs, maps, cartoons etc all diff types of txt our table cloth is a world map and we have lots of books as dp and I love reading. We naturally spoke about sounds (phonics) but just normal stuff ie showing the their name written down and sounding it out or the cereal packet at bfast time.

Your child will come home with reading books and maybe phonics cards and it's great to practise those at home, my children preferred their own choice of books... I bloody gate biff, chip and magic key etc but they read those from school as well as our own books. A mix of fact and fiction books, stories and poems and different types of writing.

You are right as a parent to focus on the settling into School, the social side the routines etc and basic stuff like being able to get dressed and undressed, go to the toilet and manners and taking turns are all skills they need to be practising for reception.

Please don't stress about book bands or reading levels. Your child will get there at their own ace. School is a learning journey and it's not a race to the finish line.

It's the at home meetings this week, any other thoughts on what questions I need to ask?

• what reading scheme is being used? Do you read through every book?

• what phonics scheme do you use?

mrz:

I get that you find it frustrating parents don't show up - but do some of your parents work and coming at 3:30 wouldn't work for them?

I was really getting at a few simple sheets going home to parents at the right time. Like your link on another feed about comprehension - a quick visual reference for parents to help affirm what they should be doing at home. It is totally possible for a teacher to track reading levels of their pupils in class and have prepared support guidance notes for parents based on what level their child is currently working at.

I get that as the person organising a meeting to explain something it is frustrating nobody shows up - but there are other ways of communicating - have you considered filming your presentation/ speaking over a power point & uploading the film onto your school's VLE with any supporting paperwork so parents can look at it at their convenience.

I get that your response might be not all parents have access to a computer - but many parents (not all perhaps) do and I'm forever surprised that practically every parent aside from us has smart phones these days (when I feel I can't afford it myself) so could, in theory, access your downloaded video via their phone/ tablet.

HTH

MiscellaneousAssortment

Yes, ask what programme they use to teach phonics because this will let you know the order they introduce the 44 sounds. Different programmes introduce them in slightly different orders, and some introduce different first spellings too.

Ask them if they exclusively provide phonetically decodable books that match a DCs current phonic knowledge for practising at home. Hopefully there answer will be yes, we only provide decodable books until at least orange band (level 16).

On the other hand, if they still have lots of old look and say books in the early levels, (1 - 16) then ask them how they are meeting the statutory requirements of the new National Curriculum, which I believe makes providing home reading books that match a pupils current phonic knowledge a statutory requirement.

If you are feeling really brave you can print out and give them a copy of the Ofsted report mrz links to in her current thread that explains in no uncertain terms why children should be given books that match their phonic knowledge to practise with at home.

If you feel less brave (and that would be understandable) at least you know what they intend to do and you can decide how you will deal with the challenge of your DS bringing home books that he will not be able to decode.

In a nutshell you can either teach him the code he needs yourself, or, on a word by word basis help him, explaining that he hasn't learnt the spelling for this sound yet, while YOU sound out such words for him. Only get him to sound out and blend words that you know he has already learnt the code.

Do not encourage him to guess words from pictures, even if the school do this. Explain to him that you will always help him sound out and blend any words he gets stuck on because reading involves looking at the text. Looking at the pictures is great in early books for things like checking how people are feeling - to enhance comprehension.

If you get stuck at anytime then please just come on here and ask

Our school ran a phonics session for early in reception to explain how it was taught in school and to give the parents a tutorial in phonics. Many, like me, were not familiar phonics from school. The session was at about 7pm and I'd say over 100 parents attended. The parents are generally well engaged though and I certainly appreciated that session.

I don't find it frustrating PSBD ... just sad. These parents aren't in general working and when I say after school I don't mean 3.30 try 6pm!

miscellaneous if your DS comes home with boring reading books every week, like biff and chip, then try and get hold of a Songbirds book, usually 6 stories in one book. They're banded so you can figure out roughly what level suits your child and they're much more pleasant to read.

Very interesting! They do Jolly a phonics but don't do any one reading scheme, picking books from a whole range of schemes.

I've never heard of that before, I'm flummoxed! Anyone heard of that before?

Sorry don't know where that extra 'a' came from between Jolly and Phonics

lots of schools don't do one scheme for reading books. often because they have a mix of old books that they don't want to waste and also because of wanting to provide variety and in the case of old books it used to happen that children could read one sort (biff chip and kipper) very easily but actually struggled to read other sorts. obviously focusing on phonics should be removing this problem but it did happen.

ours brought home everything from New Way, Songbirds, Biff Chip and Kipper/Robins/Jackdaws, ORT Playscripts, ORT Fireflies (non fiction), ORT Glowworms (poems), Sunshine Spirals, something else spirals, Ginn of various sorts, non scheme books. a whole mix.