Teacher says Y5 DS has achieved Level 5a in Numeracy, but under pressure from above to leave at 5b

[sydenhamhiller]

I know this is a minor issue, and levels really matter to the school, not to children...but my DS is upset about it, and the issue intrigues me. I'd love some good old MN opinions on this.

We get 'learning ladders' every term, with a target for your child (e.g. 4a reading, 5c writing, 5c maths'. DS's level was 5C when he started Y5, his Autumn target was 5B, which he met. Spring target 5A - he didn't meet, some complicated back story about just on the edge, despite getting 98% on the assessment yada yada. "DS will definitely get 5B next time."

DS is very very diligent, and upset about just missing his goal (bless, aged 10, this is nuts!) and we try to under-play the importance of the levels, but just doing your best. So we don't query. So Summer term, target is 5A - hasn't met it again. Despite getting 98% on his assessment last week, yet again, he won't get 5A. I wouldn't care, but (1) DS is disappointed, (2) it was promised, it looks like DS has not made any progress since December and (3) the teacher is cross about it and said "I didn't tell you, but I would pursue this higher up, it's all politics".

How? How is my 10 year old's math score in a state primary political? What's going on here really?

Any insights gratefully received.

Is it a case of him getting the points to get it on a test, but the teacher not having sufficient evidence to prove he is consistently working at that level across the whole breadth of the curriculum (not a small section of the curriculum taken as a single snapshot in a test)?

It's also about progress. Pupils have tolook like they have make a certain amount of progress. But not too much, or a) the person who predicted they would make less will get it in the neck, and b) the next teacher has a higher starting point.

it gets to the stage where an average 2 sublevels progress is shown in the records every year for every subject for every class, irrespective of what actually happened, because that is what ofsted want to see, no more, no less.

He was "promised" a 5A?

I'm afraid it just doesn't work like that! If these levels have come from the Y5 non-stat SAT paper, then I would be inclined to agree with "higher up" that that measure alone is not sufficient to 'award' a 5A. I'm not overly confident about the test, for one thing, and a Teacher Assessment really has to be based on overall and consistent performance across the board, not just scoring high on a dodgy test.

What will change for your DS if he is recorded as achieving a 5a this term? It sounds as though the learning ladders haven't been fully thought out at the upper end - do they specify what has to be achieved in each element of maths, and how many times, before the target has been reached? Something has gone wrong here whether that is a teacher being overly generous with your DS's level earlier in the year/at the end of Y4, the learning ladders not linking up with the tests that children are being given or perhaps SLT making a decision about one thing without having considered the nitty gritty (it does happen!).

Perhaps your DS is a 5a in terms of his performance in a single dodgy test but his day-to-day maths doesn't demonstrate some of the knowledge and skills that would be expected from a pupil who is performing at that level. You need to speak to the teacher again and try to gain a clear understanding of what it is that your DS needs to improve in order to be a consistent 5a across the board i.e. tests and class work. It might be a good idea to ask for a meeting with his current teacher and with a member of SLT or the Y6 teacher so they can explain what will be done in order to help accelerate his progress in Y6 given that he has, apparently, made no progress in Y5.

Maybe the LA are sticking their beaks in and the school is under pressure to demonstrate super-human progress during Y6. If your son starts Y6 on 5a then the LA/Michael Gove will probably expect him to get a GCSE A* at the end of Y6... it's just possible that the school will argue that is an impossible outcome for a child who will be sitting KS2 tests. Stranger things have happened. Sadly.

I'm sorry your DS is feeling cheated of his 5a. Speak to the teachers again. FWIW, if I had a hard-working, diligent mathematician in my Y5 class (I don't, I teach Y6), I would be delighted full stop. The level 5 would be a bonus, the 5a wouldn't alter that - I'd still be looking to stretch and challenge that pupil as much as possible, with as many investigations as possible so that s/he would gain a broader experience of maths.

If it is 'political' then, imho,, the most likely thing is that the y6 teacher is asking y5 teacher to keep him down so she only has to get him to 6c not 6b.

I disagree with luggage that they can't make more. Ofsted are now asking for all children to make good progress which is 3 sub levels. They haven't renamed this 'expected' of course, even though it is, so that can use the sound bite 'this school does not have good progress' which people interpret as children not making any rather than what it actually means: these children make expected progress. By all other definitions of the word, their progress is good.

Agree with clam that the teacher shoúldnt have said he would get it if she wasn't sure. It just all seems a ridiculous fuss over a sub level. The difference between sub levels is nothing.

I agree, Y6 teacher will have insisted he be marked down due to pressure of having a pupil on level 6 at start of the year.

Sublevels are bollocks. That they are being deliberately depressed here in an effort to make things easier for the teacher next year is just another reason to completely distrust anyone who says they are a good measure of progress.

Thanks everyone. I know sub levels don't matter, it is the sniff of politics being played that I don't like.
I think wellthen and beatofthedrum are right - I think there is pressure from above, and I think this is it.

I don't care about the ladders but I care about gamesmanship...

sydenhamhiller:

I think as many have suggested a certain amount of politics is being played here - and part that is because schools are in a very difficult position - if they tell you your child is Level 6 material and then they don't achieve L6 at SATs - well you can imagine what the outcomes might be....

So schools handle this in a number of different ways:

Around here DD1 & friends were told they all had 'L6 potential' but they'd have to work hard to achieve it. Now given DD1 never brought home any work I'd consider L6 and all her SATs practice book photocopies were clearly L3 - 5 I think the reality is that most are L5 material, maybe quite secure or high flying L5 but L6 is chancy.

I have a friend who's school handles it by only telling children they're NC L4+ and studiously refusing to discuss whether children are entered for L6 papers until they're asked to sit the test.

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My view as a parent is that it's best not to get caught up in this NC Level mad-house which is as much about teachers demonstrating good or excellent progress to merit performance related pay as it is an evaluation of your child's performance.

I think the useful conversation is to ask them

What are particular areas of weakness? and What can we be doing about that at home? Can you recommend any websites/ workbooks/ etc... to help improve in this area?

Maths is effectively a system of building blocks - it's not totally linear - for example fractions/ percentages/ proportions are in fact different ways of saying much the same thing and are interchangeable - at some point you'll know all 3 but the order of learning about them may not be obvious and is intertwined.

For my part I encourage maths practice through gaming - and you can't go far wrong with the wonderful Woodlands Junior School Maths Zone - just choose the subject area and have an explore: resources.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/maths/

HTH

Oh:

Forgot to mention that for Y6

BBC KS2 Bitesize is a brilliant resource for reviewing skills for maths/ english & science: www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/ks2/

Definitely sounds like politics and "gaming the system." I think even kind, decent teachers and heads can get caught up in this. The biggest mistake was leading your ds on. It's terribly unfair to tease and manipulate a child like that.

That said, I'd back up and look at the big picture. Your ds in obviously a bright and capable student. What are your plans for him for secondary? What do you need from his primary at the end of year 6. Do you need high stats for streaming into a local comprehensive? Do you need to ignore the school's agenda and focus on the curriculum for selective school entrance tests, plus have a nice report from your present head master/mistress?

I'd certainly enquire about just what is going on in this situation, but I'd do so carefully with an eye towards my own particular interests next year.

Thank you everyone, especially for reminding me of the bigger picture. We have various options for secondary: grammar, one academy with an NVR test, an academy what may look at tables, and lovely comp that streams on sats.

It is politics, as you say. And I don't care about the ladders, the politics, the SATs, just frustrated at school having dangled the carrot in front of DS like this, and then whipping it away. I wish they didn't discuss the kids results and levels with them this much...

And breathe.

I have written a letter to the head teacher saying I am surprised DS has not reached his targets for 2 terms running and look forward to discussing with HT the areas of 5a DS is weak at so we can ensure he does not fail to progress for a third term running. (Teacher says they want to award 5a but SMT say no.)

(I do need to remember I have 2 younger DC to get through school with the SMT potentially hating me!)

Good luck OP!

Try to detach from the politics and judge your DC's maths independent of the NC.

If it were politics they wouldn't have awarded him a 5B

Having the same problem with my class. Have an extremely gifted child who came to me as a 6c and has been a solid 6a since Christmas. Level 7 doesn't really exist. Have now been told I have to put his assessment down as a 6b. This will make his profile spikey and devalue ALL the hard work I have put in this year.

We're apparently doing this so that we can set him targets for year 6.

Of course level 7 exists

Level 7 doesn't really exist.

What do you mean?

We have students targeted a level 8.