Do you think the "middle" attainers get a bad deal at school?

[housebox]

Just been sat here musing about DS's year in Y1 this year.

He is what I suppose you would call a middle attainer. Out of a year of 60 they split into groups for maths, literacy and phonics. There are 4 groups and is is usually in group 3.

The top group get lots of work and effort put into them to challenge them and push them to the next level.

The bottom group (rightly) get the help and support they need to meet expectations.

But the middle group just seem to be left to it. Ok they are not struggling particularly but neither are they challenged or encourage to do better than average.

Some examples are:

Top and bottom groups are always taught by the teachers - the two middle groups are always taught by TAs

Top group get pushed up through the reading levels but middle group seems to be kept in a comfort zone

Top group always get work on the wall, parts in plays etc

It just feels as though the school know these kids will probably get their 2B/4B but feel that although they might have the capability to do better it would take too much of their time and resources to get then there so it's not worth their time doing it.

To this end I have had to take a lot of time to help DS, doing extra work, using reading chest, Maths whizz, reading eggs. Of course I am happy to do what DS needs but I admit I do feel a bit resentful that I have had to do this as it's like the school just don't want to put in the time as they don't think he is worth the effort.

Just wondered what other parents of "middle" children thought - or maybe it's just my school that acts like this!!

All kids get a raw deal at school.

But it's shocking that your DS is being taught maths and English by TAs. That's not normal.

Is it? Tbh I found it strange and originally thought that maybe the teachers/ta would swap round each term but they don't so ds has never actually been taught phonics by a teacher

Are they TAs or HLTAs?

I would really not be happy with this arrangement.

But then it also depends on how much progress your DS is making....

A TA is more than capable of teaching phonics to a middle ability child why would you think a teacher would be better at this task than a TA?

But sunshinecity17 surely a Teacher is more qualified than a TA. They have to have a degree and PGCE which a TA doesn't.

I've no doubt the TA's are good at what they do but it seems unfair that the middle group don't get the benefit of an actual teacher. Why then are they not teaching the Top group?

If your DS is being taught the entirety of his maths, literacy and phonics lessons by a TA go in an complain. This is not on. Do you mean that when they split into tables usually a TA works with your DS's group?

In general my answer would be yes and no.

The pitch and pace of lessons in a mixed ability class will be based around the midpoint so in input the middle kids are best catered for.

However, the small group attention often goes to the top and the bottom, or 'bubbling under' groups.

Swings and roundabouts.

that does sound unfair if the teacher really is with the top or bottom group and the TAs with the middle groups all the time but to be honest I think all children lose out in many ways at school.

certainly top group children often aren't actually pushed, yes they get harder work or more challenges than the middle groups but that is because the work is actually written for the middle groups, often their so called pushing is nowhere near their level either (speaking from experience) and quite often they are kept down on levels to accommodate others within their group who are above average but not by much or because they aren't allowed to be taught further yet.

It is wrong if all the work put up is always from the top group, our school seems to have a good cross section or everyone's work. Plays it depends what the parts are. if it involves a lot of learning of lines or particular acting ability then it could very easily be the case that the roles are given to the most suitable people and those happen to be the ones in top groups. I doubt very much that the teacher sits there thinking 'oh bottom group can be sheep, top group will be Mary and Joseph and those in the middle can be villagers'. it is more likely they think 'ok who won't stand up and say any lines, those 3 and that 1 (happen to be bottom group and second to top group children), who has a loud clear voice, is very confident and can cope with reading and learning the longer lines, x y and z (happen to be top group and second group) and so on.

all parents feel their DCs get a bad deal whatever group they are in and it is very easy to interpret the situations to suit what you imagine is happening but I can pretty much guarantee you that in the year there will be at least 1 top group parent and 1 bottom group parent thinking the same exact things but in a slightly different way.

I agree with your observation OP. I have two middle ability well behaved children. Having watched this over the last few years I can't see that middle children are ever pushed outside their comfort zone to achieve beyond what is 'expected'. As long as they are bumbling along and following their predicted level then they are left alone. DD1 is also really fed up of sitting next to the worst behaved children as she is quiet and compliant. I understand why a teacher would do this but she feels she is being punished and has even said that she might start playing up in the hope of sitting with one of her well behaved friends

If that is happening in your child's school it is very bad practice

That's interesting to here. I had thought it unfair but hasn't questioned it as DS is PFB and I didn't know any different. They are definitely not in the same room for the groups as they are split across the year and go into separate leaning areas for their group lessons.

That isn't usual for maths and literacy although some phonics programmes work that way

I know our school have some literacy programmes which they run that are aimed at the middle children. I believe the idea is that the bottom group wouldn't benefit from it as such whereas the middle children could benefit hugely and therefore increase in ability rapidly. they get extra literacy time every day.

Middle attainers most definitely get a raw deal in (some) schools. Jump ahead to secondary and these are the D/C border groups that do well in a 'good' school and not so well in a 'requires improvement' (crap) school.

Being taught by TA's (even HLTA's) consistently is unacceptable. Many TA's have very basic education and are not trained adequately. I would be raising a complaint in the vein of 'why is my child not taught by a qualified teacher'. I would move schools if it doesn't change. Completely unacceptable.
I would also say this happens more frequently that you would expect - if you know about it, do something about it.

My DD is currently in yr1 & they are split across the year group (3 classes) for phonics & for the mental maths challenge which is done weekly (phonics daily).

Everything else is done in the class.

However as there are 3 teachers for the 3 classes each teacher takes a group (3 groups) iyswim. I really wouldn't be happy with a TA doing it full-time (even if the teacher has done the planning) although the issue sounds like a lack of pushing the middle groups rather than being taught by a TA as I am sure a TA is more than capable pushing them.

Providing the phonics lesson isn't did more than 20 minutes or so, I think it's fine. The TA will have been trained in that specific intervention and is likely to be capable of delivering the lesson well. All the research on the effectiveness of TAs shows that they are equally as good as teachers at delivering interventions.

It also shows that their level of qualification is not relevant to grid ability to deliver an intervention - TAs are also lovely people!

Sorry for typos- fat fingers!

well, as a pp said, the whole class lesson tends to be pitched at the middle. It goes over the heads of the least able, and the most able are bored, so they do get that input.

In dds Y1 class they have groups for phonics, maths and literacy. The groups take turns as to who is getting support/help and who is working independently. The TA and teacher take turns as to who is doing what. But the bottom group gets more adult input as they find it very hard to work independently, and the top group get much less as they can work independently.
For phonics they are split across the year group, and there are 6 groups I think. The groups change who is leading them, so that they have TA for a few weeks, and then teacher and so on.
So it does sound as if your ds group is getting a raw deal by always having the TA, but on the other hand the training of the teacher is in the planning, preparation and evaluation of the children, anyone with a bit of common sense and understanding of the phonics system can do the day's phonic lesson (which is planned in detail by the teacher) Our class TA is just as good as the teacher when with her phonics group, BUT not every TA is.

Dds class has 5 groups and I often think that groups 3 and 4 get the worst deal. They would really benefit form a bit more input, and a push on, so I think you have a point.