School banning suncream, am I unreasonable to query this?

[sydenhamhiller]

Sorry, loooooooong :o

DC 1 and 2's primary sends home a weekly newsletter. Friday's states: children are not allowed to bring suncream into school. As it happens, last week the news had been about skin cancer on the increase, so I approached the HT and asked about the ban.

The HT's response was: "Well, the children were just messing around with sun cream all the time, it makes such a mess and takes up so much time - you can just get that 8 hour stuff you know." I was slightly taken aback (surely suncream is in their bags, in the cloakroom?), but just said "well, it's been all over the news about the rise in skin cancer in the UK, and they do recommend frequent application of sun cream. DC1 does after school sports 2x a week after school, and he has caught the sun a few times- it is a long time from the first application at 8.30 to 4.30."

HT's response was: "well, I suppose we could look into some kind of arrangement, maybe he could store it at the school office...."

Now to be honest, I know I am being unreasonable: DC1 hates applying sun cream, and never remembers to put it on if someone does not nag. But that's not the point, is it? Australian primary school teachers manage this issue. With skin cancer on the increase, and sun damage irreversible, I just don't think banning sun cream is the right policy decision. I've never queried anything before (DC are Y5 and Y3, but as a friend had skin cancer 15 years ago in her 20s, I feel strongly about this.)

I realise some people might tell me to get a grip; DH is rolling his eyes at me! I just wondered whether any of you lovely Mumsnetters can share your UK (or even English) primary schools' sun cream/ hats/ protection policies with me?

It's not practical for teachers to apply suncream to 30 children twice a day and I don't care what they manage to do in Australia!
3 minutes per child, including either washing hands or changing plastic gloves between each because of cross-contamination would mean as soon as the children come in from break time they would have to start lining up again for sun cream for lunchtime!

What happens if the staff miss a bit? Can you imagine the fuss some parents would make?

I think all schools should have to provide an area of shade and allow children to apply their own cream if parents feel it's absolutely necessary. It should be absolutely non-negotiable that parents provide a hat though. I'm constantly amazed that 90% of children don't have one even on the hottest days!

Some private schools ban sun-hats. It's not the look they're going for.
Less - not burning doesn't mean that the sun isn't doing damage.
I argued with our school that they should have shorter lunchtime plays outside, but they refused this as the teachers like a long lunch break. Staying out of the sun for more than 15 mins at a time between 11 and 3 is the most effective thing.

Take it up with your schools people, and make them implement a protection from the sun policy - there's loads of stuff on the internet to back you up, especially the UK Cancer research site. Schools do nothing because 1) it's a hassle, and 2) they are confident that they won't be sued when your child gets skin cancer, because you won't be able to prove that it was their fault, and if you can, that particular Head Teacher won't be there then anyway.

Some private schools ban sun-hats. It's not the look they're going for. yup, and others charge £27 for one that fits the look, offers no real protection and inevitably ends up being kicked round the floor! which is only slightly better than the £30 winter hat which goes funny in the rain

Or, Hedgehogsrule, they think that banning children from more then 15 minutes outside a day, when primary school-age children need to burn off energy with outside play in order to be attentive enough to receive a decent education, is a hysterical over-reaction to a slight risk, as I do.

Our environment is full of carcinogens, the sun is just one of many. It's not practically possible to avoid them all, and a balance of risk assessments needs to be made.

And if my school tried to shorten outside play because of one parent ranting about sun risk in this rain-soaked nation of sogginess, I'd decend into absolute rage!

*descend

Annie 1) I didn't suggest one play of 15 mins - I suggested reducing the lunchtime play and lengthening the short morning and afternoon plays. As it is, children spend a full hour outside, on glaring tarmac, at the hottest time of the day.

2) the reason they gave for saying no was that the teachers like their long lunch break.
3) It isn't a small risk. Numbers are soaring.

Send them with a long sleeved sun top to wear for after school activities like they would wear at the beach and a hat. 8 hour stuff in the morning.

30 small kid + 30 bottles or aerosols of sun cream = nightmare.

You really are making this into a far bigger problem than it needs to be.

Why do some schools cope so well with suncream and some so badly? Why do some schools take things in their stride, whereas for others everything is too much trouble?

I put p20 on ds at 7.30 before he leaves for school, and he's fine even with an hour or more outside at the end of the day. I'm very fair skinned, and it works for me all day too.

For those saying that sun exposure didn't use to be an issue, I was at primary school in the 70's, and I had to wear a hat and wear baby suncream as it was the only factor high enough to stop me burning.

As someone who is seeing the massive increase in non melanoma skin cancer, using sun cream is so important - these can be removed or treated, but especially on the nose and ears they can result in big scars

Hi old teacher here.
We can not possibly apply sunscreen to children, not allowed to touch them and it is impractical time wise. We do teach children ( infants) to play in the shade. We take great care to look after them for the hours they are at school. For most children that is for 6 hours.
If my now adult children were little I would put the 8 hour stuff on as we left for school.
Responsibility has to work both ways in my opinion. For example, last week in my class of 6 year olds on a very hot sunny day, out of 30 children only 5 had sun hats. I showed those with short hair how to put their polo shirt collars up so that at least their delicate skin on back of neck did not burn. Also, after a scorching weekend, there are always at least a few children who come to school on Monday with painful sunburn.
I have waffled on here, but what I am trying to say is that if we as parents find it tricky to protect our own children from the sun, imagine how tricky it is for a teacher to protect 30 children.
Lots of schools insist their pupils spend at least some of the midday break under trees of there are any in the school grounds.

Just an aside, re "long lunch break" for teachers. They don't actually sit in the staff room for that time though. 12pm mark the morning work, get prepared for the afternoon. 12.30 have a 25/30 minute lunch break. The infants usually take 30 mins to eat so don't usually spend a whole hour out in the sun.

Teachers are not allowed to put sun cream on the children at our schools but I have always sent my children with lotion in their book bags/rucksacks

They probably don't use it though for all my nagging!!

We have only used one brand of 8hour sunscreen and it doesn't work on my ds1 unfortunately

There's three forms of skin cancer. One of them, melanoma, is viciously hard to treat and spreads quickly. Traditional methods for treating cancer, chemo and radiotherapy, are frequently useless. There are emerging treatments for it but nothing is guaranteed. For many people it's just a case of having months to live.

I've got it now and it had spread before I even knew I had it. My prognosis is good as I'm still at a stage where it can more or less be removed surgically - it's not a small operation either - but a few more weeks and things could be horribly different.

I understand about skin cancer. But I really think sun cream for children every day is overreacting. Or most days. Full day out in unavoidable glaring sun, sure - every day at school for the entire summer, not necessary for the majority of children.

I am battling a 7 year old who basically thinks she needs sun cream on every time she leaves the house, and who will stop dead in the garden when leaving the house for school and refuse to go in until she has sun cream in her bag, when I have decided she does not need it - or I need the tube for the other children.

Sun cream every day is impractical, primary age children applying their own sun cream is for the most part impractical. I am trying to show good sun habits instead - the habits I use, as I apply sun cream to myself once or twice a year at an absolute maximum.

The thing is some schools handle this badly, from children being outside all lunchtime (eating packed lunches outside for less dining room sitting / avoids them being eaten in classrooms) to banning sun cream and not allowing appropriate hats - all mentioned on this thread.

Some schools could do better in these areas.

My children have fair skin and wearing a legionnaire sunhat protects their face, neck and ears (ie the bits realistically likely to get burnt on a really sunny day) far better than poorly applied suncream ever would - and a hat doesn't contain unpleasant chemicals. Given that we have had publicity about skin cancer, but also about vitamin D deficiency and about some sunscreen chemicals being hormone disrupters, I'd rather go for the clothing option as a first choice than the all-day sunscreen one. It also has the huge advantage that a teacher can see if you are wearing a legionnaire sunhat or not, but can't see that you've missed a great area of skin in the middle of your nose, or the back of your neck... No way would I trust my children to put sunscreen on their faces properly, all by themselves. They'd probably come home with most of the sunscreen permanently staining their clothes, instead. Most adults can't even do it properly.

Also, it's bizarre so many people go on about suncream but don't mention sunglasses... If you really want to be all belt and braces about it, then why on earth are you not caring for their eyes?! Do you all want your children to get early cataracts? Not to mention the fact that it is even possible, for those who want to be paranoid, to get melanoma in the eye... Either do it properly and insist your child wear sunglasses every single time the UK sun is strong enough to burn their skin, or accept you are being a bit of a hypocrite and making a fuss only when it suits you.

I am a school nurse, I have had lots of enquiries about this.

NICE guidelines state sun cream should be applied 30 minutes before going out, and then every two hours. Children should be capable of applying their own cream under supervision, even reception year. An alternative to cream could be the spray rather than cream, and less messy.

This is a good page to direct schools to
www.sunsmart.org.uk/schools/schoolsresources/sunsmart-schools-resources

Hedgehogsrule ... 'teachers want long lunch breaks' ... these are needed for marking, preparing for the afternoon, running lunch-time clubs, talking to children with problems ... I usually eat a sandwich while preparing for the afternoon.
I squirt suncream onto their skin; the children rub it in. It takes 10 minutes or so of our lunch break; some of the footballing boys get very impatient ...

I certainly don't think teachers should have to take time to apply suncream to 30 kids.

But why is child protection always brought into it? Drives me barmy. Is there any specific Act which states that teachers cannot touch children (even in cases where it would be PROMOTING their health/ safety) or is this a hysterical over reaction by schools?

One of my children is at a special school and the teachers have to be very hands on (literally) with the kids, potty training them, teaching them to wipe, etc. And these are particularly vulnerable children, so how come the teachers there can circumvent this (imaginary) ruling?

I would have a fit with a school that couldn't handle children applying sunscreen. Australian schools manage it fine. If children are messing around with it then the school need to deal with their discipline not ban sun-screen. DD's school ask for a labelled bottle to be brought in along with a hat to be kept in the class-room.

My SIL got malignant melanoma at 27 and was given a 30% chance of surviving 5 years. Fortunately she is still alive, but had to have major surgery, a year of chemo and wait 5 years before she could try for a baby due to the risk of the hormones causing a reoccurrence. As it is, she will need regular checks for the rest of her life.

Vitamin D needs regular exposure throughout the year not just the few hot days we have. For a number of reasons, including the protective effects it may have against Multiple Sclerosis, my DD takes Vit D supplements on prescription every day. Every child in the UK should be on these supplements till the age of 5, but the Dept of Health has been very lax about it - possibly because there are often problems with obtaining it.

Having grown up in the Tropics and having had severe sunburn a couple of times as a child I wear F50 everyday and I put it on DD most of the year too.

Schools need to take these things seriously. In the same way that they can teach children to wash their hands, they can teach them all to apply sunscreen before going outside and check each other for missed bits. You don't need bright sunshine and heat to cause skin damage.

We send in named bottles, plus I cream them before school (actually use the clear spray stuff). My son is incredibly fair-skinned and still is likely to burn even with cream on, so there's no way he could do a day without reapplying.
The teachers get them to put it on before lunchtime and breaks (and help the reception children)

And what about the sunglasses??...

And still no mention of sunglasses...