Dd behind in maths, writing and reading

[Thereistoomuchconfusion]

I had a chat with dd teacher this morning (I initiated chat), she says dd is still very behind but they aren't concerned. But I am. She said some lovely things about her she said her empathy is above that of most in the class and for that reason lessons like RE dd does really well on, she has created some poems that are brilliant. But she is still behind in reading writing and maths. I feel so proud of her because to be empathetic is massively important in life, but I don't want her to struggle academically I want it all to come naturally for her so she has the world at her finger tips.

She is at the bottom of the class for writing, maths and reading, she is 6.

The teacher says that her progress is what they are concentrating on and her progress is good according to the teacher. It worries me greatly that she is behind. What else can I do? If the teacher isn't concerned? Maybe I'm just over anxious but surely we should be getting her in line in where she should be?

The main problems are her lack of concentration. Her confidence in her ability to do the task, she seems to think that she isn't able to do the task at hand. I have always praised her for her work when she tried hard but she still says her work is rubbish but never has anyone ever told her that, it's just her perception because she compares herself to others in the class her friends/peers, I don't push her too much so I don't know why she is not confident but then again to get her to do homework, reading or spelling (and now times table practice) is a huge challenge that ends up in tears so avoidance is a problem for me and her because I don't want her to hate these things I don't want fights at home, I work full time and my time with my children is precious I don't want it to be filled with fights about homework etc.

She knows that others are ahead of her by seeing there work and says things like there is no point I'm never going to be as good as so and so, obviously as her mum I think she can be as good I think she has massive potential and it's going to waste I feel like people at the school just accept she is below and that is that. I'm so confused not sure what to think or what to do for the best? Not really sure why I'm posting all this, just trying to process my thoughts I guess. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

It's hard isn't it when your child struggles?

She may well have other children telling her she is rubbish at things, or saying stuff like 'oh I'm on chapter books, you are still on red level' or whatever. DD2 has had that kind of thing quite a lot, she's in y4 now.

Make sure you say that different children learn at different rates, and she will be able to do it if she keeps trying.

Point out her strengths.

Always always always praise effort.

Try to carve out 5-10mins a day to practice something, it all adds up (including summer holidays). If confidence is a problem, start with things well within her capability so she can start by succeeding. Maths can be done in the car or when out and about.

Reading, make sure she knows/is using phonics. No avoidance that practice really helps here.

Writing? Encourage colouring, dot to dots to help with fine motor skills.

If she keeps going over summer holidays she will have gained half a term over those that do nothing. It can make quite a big difference (especially to reading).

Accept that she may not be as academic as you would like.

Thank you so much for replying. I think I need some ideas on how to bring things in without her realizing ie maths in the car etc? That she is doing it if that makes sense. Because if we sit down to do something school work she instantly doesn't want to and gets quite stressed about it. I'm always in two minds whether to make her do it or just stop forcing for fear of her hating school work even more, I am inconsistent in my methods, last week was the first week I made her learn her spellings as in forced her to sit down and not leave until she knew them and this was the first week she got them all right, usually I put the spelling around the house ie mirror whilst she is brushing her teeth back of the car seat in front of her seat etc in hope she will just pick it up but this hasn't worked. But I don't want to force her whilst she is having tantrums however it did work, is this the right thing to do??

I think I do need to accept she won't be academic neither me or her dad are, I struggle through Uni purely because I was determined to become what I am today, but it was bloody hard! And not everyone thought so.

Dd was the first child to write her own name at preschool and the first child to learn the alphabet in phonics, she was reading easy words before school, everyone from mil to a teacher we met on holiday told us how brilliantly she will do at school and I really believed that. But right from year R it soon became apparent that this wasn't the case, I guess it did come as a shock to me because she was always above in milestones, her talking was incredible her child minder said she never heard someone below 2 talk like her, even now at 6 years old people comment on how articulate she is. However this obviously has no reflection on how she concentrates and wants to do the work set at school. Her teacher says she needs things to be explained several times before they sink in and she always has to double check everything with the teacher or the teaching assistant before proceeding with work, she struggles to work independently for fear of doing things wrong. I'm by no means a strict militant mother so I don't know why she is so scared to make mistakes or not do the work for fear it won't be the best as I have always praised her when she makes an effort and told her numerous times it doesn't matter what xy or z are doing as long as you try your best.

It feels like they are missing something, but I guess that is what every parent who has a child that is below at school thinks and I need to just accept this. By no means to I want her to be best or at the top just in line would be fine by me and not below where she should be. So confused. Sorry for waffling on, people in RL don't really want to hear me bleating on about it and people probably don't want me to do it here either :-) but need to get it all out because I think about it every day.

Is there anything you can do to reward her effort (apologies if you are doing this already). For example a sticker chart and if she does her reading/spelling practice every day then at the end of the week she gets a treat of some description - her favourite TV programme or an ice cream etc? I would be tempted to avoid rewarding the actual attainment for now, just really encourage the effort. You can make a big fuss when she gets all of her spellings right, but the risk is that if she doesn't get 100% the next week she then feels like a failure.

I found mathsfactor good for DS who was in a similar point. Though there are many other very good other maths programs. Helping in one area did seem to help with his overall confidence. All my DC seem much more willing to do on-line maths than do it with me.

Time tables - percy parker song on in back ground a lot helped mine.

I did work on his reading - using a phonics program at home - then next teacher picked up his progresses and put extra help in. It was ten minutes a day. He was struggling and needed more time and practise to get the basics.

I'm still working on writting and spelling and it can be hard - small and everyday is what I try and aim for though starting to look at on-line spelling programs as well.

He does need things going over more than other DC - but when he started making progress in some areas his teachers then realised he was capabale of more.

Routine and bribery - have proven very useful to get them to actually sit down and do the extra - sometimes the maths stuff has been fun or the reading very short - which has helped.

Does she remember things like nursery rhymes? Can she follow complex instructions (ie go upstairs, put on your socks and bring down your shoes) or do you need to repeat them?

In some ways she sound a bit like my daughter who is dyslexic - but who has great empathy and an amazing vocabulary. Issues with working memory and slow processing can cause difficulties with maths / reading etc and tasks need to be broken down into small steps and learned over and over again.

I was going to suggest dyslexia or some other visual processing difficulty too. It seems strange that it's just the activities with a pen to paper or reading element that she's struggling with. Very possibly inherited from you, if you've experienced similar struggles.

A friend of DH didn't realise she had dyslexia until her eldest child was diagnosed. Turns out she was smart enough that she'd managed to develop her own coping mechanisms and keep her head above water without any formal help. Could be what is happening with your DD.

Hello Thereistoomuch....

This is so familiar and exactly the same situation as DD1 was in Y1/ Y2 (aged 6).

First off - because this is important to absorb - remind yourself that elsewhere in the world children don't start to go to school until the year they turn 7. (So in effect this is pre-school for your DD).

I think the other thing to take on board is that many pupils in those countries go on to rather wallop the UK on PISA results (so pupil test results English/ Maths/ Science at age 18 - although difficult to compare very different systems of testing in different countries).

So here you are with an empathetic child who has the intelligence to realise she's not doing as well as others and is starting to believe she's not very bright.

First off - send the signal - YOU CAN DO THIS! Every single day - show no doubt... treat it as a puzzle she's going to solve one of these days.

Really important for your child to see you have total faith that you can add/ subtract/ read Harry Potter/ whatever....

Second - accept this is going to be a long hard slog - so choose your battles carefully and accept that this is about building blocks. No point worrying about multiplication if they can't add beyond 20 yet.

Third - inform yourself - what should a child be doing at this point/ have covered at this point. Regardless of your opinion on it - the new national curriculum programmes of study do set out some very clear information about what should be covered/ presumably mastered at a given school year: www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-curriculum-in-england-primary-curriculum - scroll down and you can see programmes of study for each area of the curriculum.

MN is great - if you are stumped what to do - just post Any ideas on how to support X at home?

--------

Maths: Well I think the first thing to resolve is whether this is an issue of can't grasp the point/ method or an issue of not confident/ able to perform the task. Sometimes difficult to tell the two apart. Certainly we realised that DD1 really struggled with whiteboard/ teacher's back to class style instruction. She responded much better to graphics/ video game formats/ highly visual examples - so showing addition by 5 cup cakes plus another 3 cup cakes - rather than numbers...then gradually replacing them with numbers. This was further muddled by the fact that she had rather merged different methods she was shown and had got the idea that estimation was addition somewhere along the way as well.

The good news is that there is so much out there now that can help.

Brilliant websites: highly recommend Woodland Junior School Maths zone - with links to all sorts of games/ resources to support learning maths skills - just select topic and off you go: resources.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/maths/

games: Math Champs: www.mathschamps.co.uk/#home

also early maths skills on Oxford Owl: www.oxfordowl.co.uk/welcome/for-home/maths-owl/fun-activities - and also lots of advice for you.

You may need to do a bit of research/ try out the games first - but these can really help give your child the time/ space at home, without the pressure of teachers/ classmates looking on - to work through various problems - and in a rather enjoyable way.

-------

READING: The real issue is decoding words at this age. If your child is struggling to work out what letters say when all put together - then there's a problem with their phonics skills.

Something silly like CBEEBIES Alphablocks may not seem obvious - but the cartoons/ songs really do help children visualise what they're doing when they sound out groups of letters randomly (in their view) put together: www.bbc.co.uk/cbeebies/alphablocks/ - DD2 started viewing these when she was in Year R and we suddenly realised DD1 was sneaking into the room to see too - she admitted it was helping.

Jolly phonics has some brilliant workbooks - well really more like colouring books - that work through the basic letter sounds step by step and include practice writing letters - very traditional but we found very effective: www.amazon.co.uk/Jolly-Phonics-Workbooks-Books-1-7/dp/1870946502/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top - this is an amazon link, but you can get them from most large newsagents/ book shops.

Oxford Owl READING is also tremendously helpful. Lots of free e-books (always useful) - but lots of resources/ ideas to help you support early learning with reading. www.oxfordowl.co.uk/for-home/reading-owl/reading

------

Literally - starting with these - a little bit of time here and there (15 - 20 minutes on workbook/ maths video game/ etc....) a few times a week can make a huge difference.

If you feel that maths is an utter disaster (and I've been there) - you may want to consider on-line tutorials - we went mathsfactor, but others have sung the praises of maths whizz/ mathletics/ komodo maths (see my other posts on this or try search engine). All offer you the flexibility of having gathered together resources themselves and doing practice exercises at your convenience. You may have to help a lot with typing answers at first - but in many ways this stage is useful because in the process you can witness first hand what the issues are.

DD1 finished KS1 NC L1 across the board. Struggling to read, unable to add beyond 20 and incapable of subtraction. We were in total despair and I just couldn't bear it any longer. We had expressed our growing concern to the school since late Year R, but they made it clear 'she was learning at her own speed' and (rather insultingly) felt the need to point out to us that 'what you need to accept Mrs. PSBD is that your DD1 isn't that bright'.

DD1 has spent from May Y2 to date doing a little bit extra with me/ mathsfactor each week - maybe an extra hour of maths + regular nightly reading. When she's had homework I haven't been content with her doing the bare minimum, I've taken every opportunity and made the most of it. She knows she's done a lot more work than her friends, but then again she sat all L6 papers for KS2 SATs this past May and many of her friends (streets ahead of her in Y2) didn't go on to do that.

I wouldn't say I'm a tiger Mum - but I would say that if alarm bells are ringing, if you and your DP/ DH are well educated and were good pupils as a child - then it isn't unrealistic (and the statistics back me up on this) to have that expectation for your child.

I don't blame the teachers - I think the reality is no teaching method/ approach is going to work for everybody. I don't know why DD1 didn't do well initially - but I have worked out she's a very visual learner and one who does better if she then gets a chance to go away and practice that skill a bit.

Hang in there Thereistoomuch... - you won't fix this quickly or easily - but a little here and there week by week will start to make a big difference. My parting piece of advice is keep some school type work (reading/ maths work/ some writing [postcards great for this]) going over the summer. Makes it a lot easier to get off to a flying start in the new school year.

HTH

Spelling? I'm no help here. It's only now in y4 that DD has started to get the hang of it. She didn't even have spelling tests in y1. (And I think mrz might come on and tell you they don't work well anyway).

We do maths in the car for a known length of time -e.g. 'until we get to the motorway'. I alternate between DD1 and DD2. So in the past DD1 had times tables and DD2 was doing 'If there are 3 birds and 1 more joins them'. If she can't do it I work it out out loud, or say things like 3 fingers, then one more up, how many now.

DD2 also struggled with independent work, this didn't really come for her until y3.

Stupid question - has she had sight and hearing checks?

I wouldn't be too concerned about spellings at 6. Its just a memory test after all and there is nothing wrong with getting her to sit down and focus on the task for a few minutes anyway.

I've always used workbooks and websites with my kids. It doesn't really feel like they're working when they think they're playing computer games and doing some exercises in a book full of pictures.

I used www.educationcity.com/ as computer based learning and this series of workbooks at that age;
www.amazon.co.uk/Adorable-Addition-Stinky-Subtraction-Magical/dp/1843150913/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_y
Ask at the school if they use Education City as a lot of schools do.

The other thing I did when ds1 was falling slightly behind in his maths was I asked the teacher every week what they'd be doing the following week and how I could prep him. I went through exactly what they were going to do and that really boosted ds1s confidence as he started finding the lessons straightforward. Its made a huge difference.

Carry on reading with her every day.

Do you read to her? Is she able to concentrate if you're reading a longish story to her?

And praise her like mad whenever you can.

I would agree with some of the others that there could be something underlying going on.

I would suggest looking into dyslexia or dyspraxia type problems (both can cause problems with organisational ability, grasping what a task is etc), hearing and sight obviously, processing issues of different sorts. ADD which is basically if I understand it right ADHD but without the hyperactivity, so they can't concentrate on things but they aren't having to run around or fidget all the time.

DD1 is extremely bright, I always knew this, lots of people could see this straight away, school thought she was clever but nothing special. I knew something wasn't right with her learning to read, noone else other than my mum took any notice, school said she could read too well to have a problem. turns out she DOES have a problem. she has a language disorder, she has a lot of dyslexic and dyspraxic tendencies but is obviously compensating for them, she is an excellent reader but it is very hard work for her. School really just thought she was good but not exceptional. It is so easy in a bright child for things to be missed and yet that child is struggling to manage to do the things they are achieving. Bright children are often perfectionists with a fear of failure too.

DD1 had a terrible breakdown on getting a spelling wrong once at school not long after they started spelling tests. we even had to walk back round to school to speak to the teacher because I couldn't console DD at all. anyway we explained to her that many adults would be very happy to get 60 or 70% in an exam and that that was the equivalent of 6 or 7 spellings right out of 10. so we agreed she should aim for 8 out of 10. Now she doesn't even bother to tell me what she gets, she is unconcerned if she gets 8 or 9 out of 10. she now says things like 'well I know nothing bad is going to happen just because i get something wrong'.

she is also 6.

Reading your post I wondered about ADD. Ds1 has ADHD and despite reading and writing before going to school and having a huge vocabulary he really struggled. He went to a little, private nursery where he had a lot of 1:1 and thrived but as soon as he was supposed to work in a big class it fell apart. It took three years to get a diagnosis as the school had labeled him lazy and lacking in discipline. He left primary school in all the top groups and I have never forgiven his first teacher.

Wow thank you all so much for all the advice and tips and so nice to hear others have had similar problems I mean that in the nicest way obviously.

I will have a proper read later as just about to do school run.

I have suspected dyslexia for some time since autumn of year R, I am mildly dyslexic my sister and my dad are severely dyslexic. Her school don't think so and won't test until year 2. Mum offered me money to get her assessed privately by an educational psychologist because I am so concerned that something just isn't right. But DH, my dad and my sister all felt it wasn't fair to put a label on her too young. And my DH thinks I'm worrying over nothing as the school isn't worried so why should we sorta thing. Haven't thought much about ADD but it's definitely something I will have a look at. Someone mentioned about her following instructions and she doesn't manage too well but I thought it was an age thing, for example I will say go upstairs and get your shoes and socks on then brush your teeth, I will go up 10 mins later and she will be doing something totally unrelated no task is complete. I normally get annoyed and say why didn't you do what you were told she will say I forgot. To which I believed her to be making excuses for wanting to do something better, but maybe this is part of the problem. Dd2 who is 3 can go up stairs and get shoes socks on and brush her teeth without even being asked twice. Have to say I thought this was just normal, I mean Barbies or what ever it is that distracts dd1 is more interesting than what I have asked for. But maybe there is something more going on??

Does she do any extracurricular activities, being good at a sport or a musical instrument will build confidence and concentration

She does too many really, she does ballet, beavers and swimming. She did do street dance too but I stopped it because that was 3 nights and it was too much. Now it's ballet and beavers on Wednesday and swimming Friday. Which is better. She does lack self confidence unless it's to do with school work.

I am a retired primary TA, and I see you have had useful comments already.

Re Phonics and reading: in MN book reviews, "children's educational books and courses section" there is the Oxford Phonics Spelling Dictionary mentioned. You might find this useful to clarify reading and spelling, and it is an easy book to use, and you would both probably enjoy it. It will take a child right through primary, and up to secondary level.

Don't worry you are not alone! My DC was very similar in that before school he always seemed fairly ahead. He spoke early and had a good vocab and knew all his letter sounds before starting school. Then in reception something just seemed to "stall" and he didn't really make the progress I would have expected and ended up near the bottom of the year when he started Y1 with very low confidence in his academic ability.

The school were pretty hopeless to be honest. Reception hadn't let us know that he was falling behind and in Y1 the teacher basically implied that he was just not very bright and it was clear that she wasn't going to put herself out to bring him up and just didn't believe he could do it...so it was up to me!

I did the following. You don't need much time maybe 10-20 mins a day and you really can make progress. Personally I would suggest that if DD does a lot of after school clubs as you have said you could cut back on one of these to make a bit more time for helping her with school work.

Literacy

Reading every day religiously! I also used a wide range of books from the library etc and didn't just rely on the school reading books which I felt were not challenging him. Oxford Owl has loads of free e-books and you can see the different levels and what they require from a child.

Reading good quality literature to your child every day so that they learn to love reading and also helps with their vocab, storytelling and expression hearing you read.

Learning the 100 high frequency words. I know some phonics fans (or should I say phans) might not agree but what really helped DS was flashcards to help him learn the first 100 HFW. I think that these words make up around 50-75% of most texts and so once he had knew these he was able to make sense of his books a lot more and it really increased his confidence. We just did a few each day before bed.

Using an online learning system such as reading eggs or teachyourmonstertoread is great as it is a games format and so they don't feel they are learning and think it's fun! Also alphablocks and BBC bitesize has some good games too. Maybe do 30 mins of this at the weekend.

Try and incorporate reading into everyday life as much as possible. They don't have to read chapters of books. You could encourage them to read a menu when you go out, read a recipe when you are baking cakes or street signs when walking around.

Maths

I admit that his maths was not as bad as literature so we haven't done quite as much but again

Online programmes such as maths whizz and maths factor.

Using bathtime as our maths time - we would do our counting and play games like who could count in 10's the loudest or in 5's the quietest. Also we listen to Percy Parker (you can get an iphone app) who does the most ridiculously catchy times tables songs! We'd also do number bonds races and I would get DC to test me and ask me questions which he liked!

I will also say that it could also be worth double checking any physical causes such as eyesight, hearing etc too just to make sure there is not a physical reason your DD is struggling.

The good news is that after doing the above consistently since Sept we have seen a great improvement both in his work and his confidence and enjoyment of school. I would say that in reading and maths he is now where he should be which is great.

I do feel quite angry with the school for disregarding him so early on in his academic career. When we had a recent parents evening the teacher seemed surprised at how well he had done - I did resist saying "I told you so"!

Great tips, thanks OP for starting this thread. We are in the same boat, DD2 (6) is behind in reading and poor at writing. Teacher says she is doing ok but she is at the bottom of her class and only on level blue ORT books. Both DH and I are PhDs and elder DD is academically bright so I am struggling with the idea that DD2 is totally unacademic and don't believe she can't do better. As said above, I don't mind if she isn't top of the class but don't want her to be at the bottom. Will be putting the above tips into action. Thanks.

I take it your childs ending year 1 starting year 2 sept.

I always thourght dd1 was bright in preschool had no worries about starting school,

she had ok time in receptin but was very resistant to homework ad totally switched off reading where she previously loved books.

I tried be chilled out mum and trust the teachers.

her efys scores were quite good

couple kids could read before school.

most of reception culd by end reception.

dd1 couldent teacher told me not to worry she had job share and neither had any concerns they said year 1 is where it will click,

she just had 1teacher in year 1 and full class of 30 and part time ta

The school started setting tables and groups by ability

dd1 nticed she was on bottom table.

reading scheme kept in corridr all other kids knew what levels and some made horrible remarks to her,

They gave her extra boost on phonics but cynical part of me thinks that was to do with 1st year national phonics test and passing it later went onto hurt her.

dd1 was very sprty and creative but very little time in curriculum for that.

I just wanted them to reconise some of her talents and not be soley academic focussed.

she spent most summer term year 1 in tears.

then on last day term after 2parents evenings we get the report shes behind shes not reached the required nc levels yet told at parents evening every things fine I was fuming I should have pushed harder.

so over summer dident want to do bootcamp but felt confident we could make a difference.

we signed up fr carol vordmans maths factor which she loved it recaps the year and has diffrent groups hedgehd where she got gold stars, could do independently, watched carols videos if she was stuck.

we brought few wrkdbooklets from lidls and wrks but they were very dry she dident enjoy.

we did readin challenge at libary and read more at home.

set summer project

write and make own book

write a poem

lts crafts

projects on buttreflies where we visited butterfly farm, researched and drew butterflies -dident seem like work to her.

I satrted getting pushy in year 2 as became even more formal, even more homework, she did well i weekly spelling tests ask month later and dident remember , her written work had loads mistakes as told teacher shes good at spellings she gets 10/10 which made me think whats flipping point of tests.

She was top set for phnoics yet struggling to read.

they wouldent provide any additional ta support as she passed phonics test and had fcus on kids who failed it or at the bottom so dd1 lower middle, not progressing and well behaved. serious clash with year 2 teacher led to us pulling her from that school.

In my case we chose the wrong school for her.

but often wonder if been any school as spoken to few other parents it didet click until year 2 age 7 when most other countries start reception.

everyone thinks kindergarten in usa, canada and australia is comparable with our reception. its not its age equivialant to our year 1 and easier work than uk rception class which start 2years earlier age wise.

what happened when we moved.

she had extra ta support with reading did programme called rapid read and snappy sounds both by pearsons one to one twice a week.

extra guided reading

handwriting classes -really improved her written work.

bug club reading.

more games like c beebies, more informal learnins she was mixed year 1/2 class so almost like she repeated year 1 really as was still quite informal and by end of year 2 she was where she should be not ahead but required area in all sats.I dident want her going int juniors playing catch up.

we not had report year 3 but so far parents evening been good.
we recognise her reading, writing and vocab has improved and anticipate shes doing well shes been far more ready for formal work this year so glas she was younger part of year and in lower class last year.
shes middle group abilty, rapid read finished, snappy sounds still happening as head belives they get a boost as long as possible and theres no shame so many intereventions.

They also recognise her sport, have so many other things going on non academic and given her a chance to shine. she started musical instrument this year is in school choir, takes part many clubs, had few certificates in celebration assembly is generally different child happier, more confident less stressed im so pleased,

what im saying is it could still happen better be late starter than peak to sooner.

but do ensure schiol providing al support,

that no bullying.

that shes getting chance shine in other ways.

I was told last parents evening she tries hard and as long as she tries thats all that matters.

we still have some work to do on times tables and prbably step it up at home bit more next year as have start thinking about seniors in year 5 and shes year 4.

She is at the end of year 1.

I don't know how to show my gratitude for all the advice, reassurance and time people have given me and my dd from this post. It has given me so many ideas. This is my mission now, to put these things into place and try to do little and often approach.

Thank you.

Spoke to her teacher today. They suspect dyslexia, but aren't officially allowed to say this until she is 8 as that's when the school test. I am considering getting a private educational psychologist to test for it. The school said they would recognize this and support any findings we came across but couldn't advice whether for or against private testing. I think I want to because I am struggling to know how to make things better for her. What do you think private testing or not?

well it is hard to advise. we paid for a DEST test privately - think that is what it was called, it is only a screening test though and DD1 passed it but then all the words she was given she had already learned and the 'fake' words were all 4 or 5 letters or less so she could cope with them. She is a classic compensating dyslexic but now it is noted that she has no signs of dyslexia which isn't true.

If you do pay for a test then make sure it is a full one. School shouldn't wait until 8 as actually that is now not seen as necessary.