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schools have to report on NC levels don't they?

42 replies

nonicknameseemsavailable · 04/06/2014 23:19

just that really. Just so I know for if they aren't in our reports (as I suspect they won't be) that I am allowed to go and ask for them and shouldn't feel I am being difficult or anything.

thank you

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nonicknameseemsavailable · 05/06/2014 20:16

ah ok so she still does the old SATS but not with NC levels.

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TheFallenMadonna · 05/06/2014 20:17

NC levels in year 2 I think, if she is in year 1. But not in year 6.

nonicknameseemsavailable · 05/06/2014 20:21

oh right. I am starting to think I shouldn't even bother TRYING to understand any more.

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TheFallenMadonna · 05/06/2014 20:23

Ah. Welcome to education!!

I feel that way pretty much all the time. I find out about policy changes by reading press releases on the gov.UK website [hmm[

nonicknameseemsavailable · 05/06/2014 20:36

that will be why my mum left teaching and exactly why she dissuaded me from doing my PGCE!

I just want my children to have a chance to learn stuff. At least last year and this year they have had wonderful ladies teaching them. Whilst I might think they haven't been as stretched as possibly they could have been their teachers are brilliant and have given them a great start in the whole school system making them happy little girls which I keep reminding myself is more important.

I just have a few concerns about a bit further up the school from what other parents tell me so would like to be armed with some erm 'background information' on their abilities before we get to that stage so I can have SOME idea if things are going quite as they ought to.

does that make sense? I am working on the principle that they are certainly achieving what they need to and possibly a bit more so if they have the potential to do better than that then they won't lose that potential and can fulfil it in the future but I do feel the need to have some of this knowledge of where we are as they move further up the school so that I can keep an eye on it.

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diamondage · 05/06/2014 21:27

Mrz & rollon - wow, never knew that! So what do you use if not APP?

IsItFridayYetPlease · 05/06/2014 22:01

We assess against National Curriculum levels not APP.

TheFallenMadonna · 05/06/2014 22:33

APP is a tool used to assess progress against NC levels. Everybody assesses against NC levels.

But there's levelled SATs questions, level descriptors, APP grids...

rollonthesummer · 05/06/2014 22:42

We assess against National Curriculum levels not APP

Yup-good old fashioned NC. That's all that was ever statutory anyway. APP wasn't used for long round here.

diamondage · 06/06/2014 08:47

Do you mean the NC level descriptors when you say you "assess against the National Curriculum level not APP"?

I don't understand because the descriptors are so ... minimal in their information, while comparatively the APP grids are detailed. Telling the time isn't even mentioned in the maths descriptors, so do you have to include it when assessing for a level or not (because it's certainly in the APP grid)?

Or have I really missed the point and you are in fact assessing against some other set of NC criteria?

I'm so Confused

MillyMollyMama · 06/06/2014 10:59

Nonicknames. Another problem could be that the school are poor at assessing progress anyway. They would not be alone in this. Rather than just asking for levels, which may or may not be accurate, and may not have been accurate previously, I would ask if the quality of teaching is being monitored and ask for detail of what your child can actually do. Ask if children are given extended work to stretch them. You can always supplement with lots of reading books and extending the work she has been given yourself. I know this is really hard though.

Are other parents worried about progress? Is there any chance there might be a few of you with similar issues? What reputation does the teacher have? Have there been other complaints about coasting? At my DDs school Ofsted turned up and completely agreed with the parents over coasting and poor teaching. No meaningful assessments were being carried out. I would definitely make sure you get a better deal next year.

nonicknameseemsavailable · 06/06/2014 11:59

The teacher is actually very good and seems to have good results with the class who seem as a whole to be doing very well, it is really the top few who I feel are not being given enough. They do get challenges to do and I can do a bit with her at home but I like her time out of school to be for 'other' things and hobbies although we do a lot of talking about things. I raised it at both parents evenings and the work did then seem to step up a bit which may have been coincidence but certainly once was connected to my queries.

I think it is just that I hear from people at other schools that their children are being taught x y or z (these are children who are similar levels to my daughter in terms of ability) but none of this happens at this school.

It is the hard part of being in the top few I think as well as being one of the oldest. the extension work just doesn't appear to go far enough, I could of course be wrong but when it is all so 'closed doors' I can only go on what DD1 complains about and the little that I DO get to see.

perhaps it doesn't really matter in the overall scheme of things, other things like being happy are the priority but I just would like to feel sure that my children are given the opportunity to reach their potential.

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simpson · 06/06/2014 12:37

Does the teacher not give all the parents a sheet with everything that they are covering/learning each term?

PastSellByDate · 06/06/2014 13:08

simpson:

Our school used to give out a little sheet of A4 about what was being covered this term, our 'learning journey' theme and personal targets - usually personal targets were never filled in.

This was abandoned post-OFSTED inspection - so now we've no idea what is being covered, save what our kids can explain to us.

I think a lot of the conversation above beautifully highlights the problem. Birmingham LEA primaries still use the APP point system and then convert to NC Levels for parent reports whilst other schools studiously avoid any substantive information to parents on pupil performance beside general indications of working below/ at/ above expected progress.

As has been discussed NC Levels are to be abandoned but replaced by whatever schools deem appropriate. I'm personally prepared to hear that DD2 has achieved 2 unicorns and needs to work hard to earn her 3rd.

Perhaps I am alone in finding this decision nonsensical. I think it is moving parents even further from some form of national expectation of achievement - thereby making us utterly dependent on the integrity of the school we're at.

As in the interesting Trojan horse/ hoax case currently playing out here in Birmingham...technically academies (which many of the schools involved were) are directly under the control of Michael Gove. A letter in today's guardian points out that 2 members of the department of education can sit on any governor's meeting at an academy and queries whether Michael Gove/ someone at the DofE ever exercised that right, given his office had been in receipt/ aware of extremist 'issues' at some of these schools.

Like many forms of privatization - conversion to academy status and devolving marking systems down to individual schools isn't about giving 'schools more power'/ 'Parents more influence' - it's about moving the problem out of the realm of governmental/ LEA responsibility and into the 'grey area' of QUANGO.

What parents (and our children at this young age) actually need is a transparent system whereby we can understand what our children should be doing in a given school year, how they should be performing at a certain age and can have faith that performance data (SATs tables/ OFSTED reports) are in fact based on data gathered under similar conditions.

The new system doesn't have these safeguards and I suspect like any poorly thought out change it will take a scandal or two, a few years of 'governmental review' and then low and behold we discover gosh those LEA's were a useful thing, providing local oversight that schools were broadly doing the right thing, rather than an unregulated free for all.

One of the points of learning history is not to make the mistakes of our past....

One of the points of educating children is about creating the future scientists, leaders, thinkers of the next generation.

Ensuring that a system is in place with checks and balances which protects the right of children to receive a good education seems a very low priority at the moment.

nonicknameseemsavailable · 06/06/2014 14:08

well the syllabus is available but given for maths and literacy it is all things she could do before going into Yr1 it doesn't help. history and topics wise it is fine but there is no indication of what will be done if they can do those things.

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Toomanyhouseguests · 06/06/2014 16:00

The syllabuses (syllabi) we have been given over the years have been all but meaningless to us as parents. Phrases like, "finding patterns in numbers." ?!? This could apply to a four year old or a maths phD at Cambridge. Just too vague to pin down and really work towards.

nonicknameseemsavailable · 06/06/2014 17:21

yes that is the other option toomanyhouseguests - some of it is just very vague which presumably is to allow them to differentiate within that but doesn't help either.

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