Letter names v letter sounds

[FatalCabbage]

In preschool DS1 used letter sounds as letter names (eg "nnn", "sss").

In Reception he used letter names to build with phonics "see says c- in c-a-t cat".

In Year One he continued with letter names as they went up the phonics levels, which makes perfect sense to me as saying "nnn ih curly c eh spells nice" is daft. Huge leaps in writing - long words, great spelling, remarkable handwriting.

But he has a supply teacher at the moment, and has gone back to "nn ih curly cuh eh". I casually queried this with him and he said "We don't use letter names with Miss X."

In the last couple of weeks we have noticed his anxiety levels rising (chewing fingers until they bleed, stammer returning) and have noticed that the supply is having more support than in April - he talks about having Mrs Y for literacy, who "lets" them use letter names and join up; the EYFS lead has been doing pick-up; he ruefully says they do easy (undifferentiated?) work with Miss X.

I'm getting twitchy. Supply is to the end of July so there are a lot of weeks left.

A concrete thing I can focus on is letter names rather than sounds. Is that a definite stage they should be past by now, or is it a teaching style that varies?

Any other advice/comments/grips you can give would also be gratefully accepted. He is pfb of three and I am in treatment for severe anxiety so I am struggling with perspective!

I think you need perspective here - it doesn't look like a biggie. Ds1 is in y3 and he spells with phonics sounds sometimes and letter names if he wants. So if he's struggling with something like "exertion" he'd spell it to himself e ks err shun then say eee ecs eee arrr tee eye oh en.

Tbh I don't think it's a big deal. Obviously if it's driving your dc to bite fingers till they bleed perhaps it is a big deal. But surely it can't be just that causing the biting?

Useful perspective.

No, it won't be letter names causing the problems; I'm not expressing myself well.

I think this teacher isn't much good, as evidenced by possibly poor differentiation (check) and basic errors in materials sent home (check), which will mean school is supporting/monitoring her and the class more (check), but in the meantime is unsettling my precious snowflake, as evidenced by unusually anxious behaviours (check).

I'm fixating on letter names because it makes no sense.

Maybe it's just me, but it sounds like something else might be going on. Undifferentiated or easy work normally doesn't lead to chewed fingers.
And he did seem to understand that Mrs X does things differently. Kids are good this way. Also, teachers don't spell words for them all day. They do comprehensions, write stories, etc. So it is likely you are making letter names/sounds more of a problem than it actually is.

DD1 had teachers changes in Y1, easy work, reading books at math because they wouldn't give her extras to do. No anxiety - just comments 'it was too easy' and she is a kid who loves learning.

Is your DS, maybe picking up on your anxiety? Or is he worried about something? Maybe friends issues? Bullying?

If I were you, I'd try to get to what's really bothering him.

Perhaps your ds is beginning to be disheartened by the variability of English spelling and the fact that many letters have more than one sound?
Mat - mate, man - many, supper - sugar... The names and sounds of English letters cannot be identical, because many of them have several sounds (on, only, once, other, won, woman, women, do).

This comes as a shock to many children after first meeting only the main sounds of letters and calling them by their sounds.

Hi FatalCabbage,
No wonder your child is confused. And it is potentially a biggie!
I would strongly advise against teaching young (YR) children sounds and letter names because they don't know which you utilise. It's much better to use sounds and to say that the spellings (You could say letters but spellings is absolutely precise language.) are the way we write the sounds /k/ /a/ /t/. At a simple one-to-one level this works very well.
Of course, later, as the teaching introduces more complexities of the alphabetic code, you still need to keep your language simple. So, for example, you can say, 'This,' pointing to the spelling , 'can be /k/ and it is in lots of words but it can also be /s/.' If your child expresses doubt draw a circle and ask him what it can be. He should come up with all sorts of things - a circle, a ball, a moon, etc. The point is that many spellings represent more than one sound. The concept isn't difficult to explain or for a child to understand but, if the code isn't taught explicitly and systematically, the child won't know which options to try. So, when reading the word 'great', the spelling can be /ee/ in 'seed', it can be /e/ in 'bread' and it can also be /ae/ in 'great'. If this knowledge isn't taught, the child won't be able to supply the right option when they get stuck.
As for all the stuff about 'curly' /k/ and 'kicking' /k/, it just adds another layer to be remembered and it doesn't contribute anything, except possibly more confusion.
So, stick to sounds: letter names will not help your child to read and spell. Think about it! If you say 'en' 'eye' 'jee' 'aitch' 'tee', you can't hear the word 'night'. On the other hand, if you say /n/ /ie/ /t/, you can. You point to the and say 'This is another way of spelling the sound /ie/. Say /ie/ here.' Letter names are useful when your child is spelling so when your child asks you to spell the /ie/ in 'night', you say, 'It's the eye gee aitch spelling.'

Sounds all the way until they are secure, then add the names of the letters. DD2's school don't really start using the names of the letters until y2/y3 I don't think. DD2 is now in y4 and really only recently have I been able to spell words to her using names.

My understanding was it was just sounds used until yr2/3. My 2 both know sounds and letters and interchange them which actually helps for some of the phonic sounds where it changes (sorry - not clear but hopefully you know what I mean) and mine are ok working with both but many children find it confusing.

I agree with josuk that there might be something else going on. Perhaps the teacher is stricter so in general is shouting more (not at your child but in general), or less strict so other children are misbehaving more and distracting/disturbing your child. Perhaps the new teacher has very different expectations, perhaps focusing more on content than spelling or spelling more than content. I don't think letter sounds or names could cause so much anxiety but he is obviously very stressed poor thing so could you perhaps speak to the supply teacher (or the other one who is supporting literacy) after school and see what they suggest? Could it be he is worried he is doing things wrong which is why he is being taken back down to more basic levels when in reality it is just the teacher's style?

Poor differentiation is a problem but doesn't normally cause that amount of upset (I have 2 in this position at the moment and one suffers greatly with anxiety but we haven't had an issue from it, just a lot of moaning and complaining) and it sounds like the school are aware of it so are adding in support.

Having had anxiety myself I do wonder if he is picking up on some of your anxiety. now don't blame yourself, I know I do that if I worry my children have picked up on things, it isn't your fault if he is but I do think you need to try and find out why he is so stressed. With one of my girls we have had OCD issues and we had to explain to her (at 6) that she had a very clever mind and it worked very hard and was very active and she had made these thoughts and feelings on her own and made them into really big thoughts and feelings SO if she had managed to make them herself then she could manage to unmake them, like a tower she had built up, she could unbuild it and get rid of them. It worked for us and her OCD seems to have gone away completely. That isn't to say it would work for his feelings of stress and anxiety but worth considering (worth trying yourself too - it helped me immensely when I realised that actually I COULD change how I thought about things as I had made the thoughts in the first place). sorry I digress now. PM me if you want
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Ok, lots to think about here. Thanks all.

He has always loved school and still skips happily into the classroom in the morning. But something weird is going on - another mother asked me quietly this morning what I thought of another few problems I had forgotten to put in my OP so I do think it exists outside my psychosis.

I think I will casually approach the parent governor who has been asking for feedback on the teacher, and try to relax. Half term can be a good time to assess whether what's going on with DS is a school thing or a home thing.

Thanks again.

It sounds as if the supply teacher knows how to teach phonics for reading and spelling

Sorry having read your example I take back my last post.

Uh, ok

Left to his own devices he is a confident reader and writer using phase 5/6 (? he says this but I haven't Googled) phonemes and comfortable with the varied use of eg -i- -igh- -i-e- to make /ai/.

Teacher hasn't taught KS1 much so I worry.

Today I deliberately, but offhand, asked if there was anything bothering him at school or at home, and he brightly said no, not since which I had sorted for him. He does have the confidence to say when things are bad enough to need something doing and I'm proud of that.

Personally I would worry more about a school that teaches letter names in reception

And I am worried about a school that has a parent governor going around asking for feedback on a teacher! Completely outside their remit.

As others have said, ideally reading and spelling should be taught by Phonics - but even after several years since its introduction, not all schools do and some do it better than others.

This won't remove the problems at school, but you might find this book can clarify things, and make it more enjoyable and interesting for DS and yourself. If you look in the MN Book Reviews, "Children's educational books and courses" section you will find a review of the Oxford Phonics Spelling Dictionary. If DS sees the consistency in this book, it might help restore his confidence.

DD (yr1) has switched to using letter names pretty much all the time now (including in school).

To me this seems to be a thing that your anxious child (not a criticism, I have one!) is feeling because of the bigger picture (ie bad teaching).

Can you maybe talk about when he will have a new teacher next (school) year a lot?

Also my anxious child (now 8) also answered that school was fine when it clearly wasn't because he needed more specific questioning.

I hope it gets sorted as he is still so little

Or, I have just had a thought you either go down the route of " this is how you do it at school and this is how you do it at home" (not ideal but might work till July.

Or again big up how well he is doing and how the teacher uses the letter sounds as not all children are as clever as him again short term solution till July.

Without going into details, the plot thickens. A possibility the earlier teacher didn't complete the syllabus, so the "easy" work could be filling in the gaps. Argh.

I taught my son very clearly that the letters have names and these are the sounds they can make. He has never seemed confused about it. I've no idea what the school made of it but he's doing really well at reading and is happy. If you think school is not making things clear..clear it up yourself, then you know what he knows and can help him.
good luck! x