Help, need advice about Yerbury Primary

[SID2821]

Hi I have a 4 year old about to start primary in September. We have been offered a place at the much sought after Yerbury Primary School but I am having real second thoughts due to some very bad feedback I am getting about current problems with the change in head teacher and key members of staff leaving.

I am also concerned about the vibe I am getting with regards to the intake, is it all yummy mummies/daddies? Seems quite old fashioned?Will my child be the only one who goes to a local state school in Year 6?

My husband and I work in the technology sector and we see how important it is for employees to intersect with people from all backgrounds - the internet has torn down many social barriers and the people that flounder in our industry are the ones who can't cope socially with people from varying backgrounds. To succeed in our field you have got to be able to mix it up with all kinds of people. Unlike the more traditional professions like law, medicine or finance my contemporaries send their kids state - because it seems kind of retrograde to do otherwise. So top of my list for qualities in a primary school is diversity, I am not going to get that at Yerbury - am I?

I am hearing good things about Tufnell Park Primary and although I haven't visited it seems to be a very happy school with a much more diverse intake from what I can see from the school gates and web site.

Don't think we stand a hope in hell of getting into Grafton - it was my first choice and we are low down on the wait list.

Can anyone suggest any other schools?

A friend got a place at Yerbury for her son but, like you, turned it down in favour of a far more diverse school (sorry can't remember which one it was in the end). Lots of people thought they were mad but they never regretted their choice.

Yerbury isn't very diverse in comparison to most Islington primaries.

But I think it's pretty diverse in comparison to most primaries generally.

My friends tell me that in reality it's not quite as homogenous as it's purported to be, in a good way, and that there are lots of different types of people. London's population is so dense that, bar some of the faith schools, I think it's impossible for any school to be entirely made up of one group.

I also think that at least half of the pupils go onto state secondaries, but I don't know that for sure. I'm sure someone else knows more than I do.

I do love that it's not your top choice though - people kill/rent to get in there!

Yes I am aware that people rent temporarily to get in there and then move back to their real homes - quite the norm it seems round here. I have a good friend who got stung by the parents who rented temporarily to get into Eleanor Palmer School - her reaction was 'well if that is the type of parent that it attracts then it is not the right school for us!'. It's another reason for not wanting to go to Yerbury - I would have nothing in common with the type of parents who are prepared to act so dishonestly and quite frankly desperately to attend a particular primary school.

I think they're a tiny minority.

Honestly all the parents I've met have been normal non-devious types. Why not keep on the waiting list for Grafton but accept yerbury in the meantime. Really sure it's neither as extraordinary as some people think it is nor as bad as you're fearing.

In my friends reception year at EP primary it was 4 parents, perhaps Yerbury is not as bad as it is a two form entry. That is what we plan to do Playfortoday - and hope something will come up at Tufnell Park.

My understanding was that a significant number of Yerbury children went on to Acland Burghley for secondary.

There is always nervousness when a Head changes; but a Head has to retire eventually which is what has happened at Yerbury. But the Governors will have put a LOT of work into getting a good replacement, and a change can release new energy...

My children go to a similarly in-demand school in another C London borough (I know Yerbury and the catchment as well). There are lots of parents who have moved heaven and earth to get their kids into our school but it is also extremely diverse, at least ethnically. Almost ridiculously diverse to the point where my kids are almost the only ones with nothing exciting to wear on International Day! My children are in a tiny minority of English children from English families. Some of the other kids were born in the UK but almost none of them also have British parents. We have a huge range of nationalities and a very large proportion of the class have another language at home.

Class-wise it's probably not as diverse as it should be for an inner-city school but overall, diversity is the least of my issues with my children's education and I find it hard to imagine that would ever be a real issue in a C London state school like Yerbury.

I wouldn't worry about that bit of it OP. If you have other concerns with Yerbury then yes, perhaps look elsewhere, but for diversity reasons, I don't think it's necessary.

I've had a bit to do with Yerbury through work. A good number of kids f go to state secondaries and it does have a reasonably diverse mix and very happy children. I think you're over-thinking this. If you prefer another primary, great, but go and visit it first, don't make a decision based on a website. Changes in head is a different matter, but don't know so much about this.

I honestly don't know what you are complaining about - Pupil Premium 16.8%, which is around the national average - for last year's year 6 Pupil Premium was 25%, which is a quarter of the cohort. English as a second language is 20.2% - that's over a fifth of the school. And they do a good teaching job too - value added is 102.0, which is actually very high. I think you've been the victim of people discouraging you to go because they have their children on the waiting list.

Tufnell Park is more diverse - Last year's Year 6 Pupil Premium figures are 67.6%, but their value added (actual teaching) scores are actually lower, at 101.2.

Well I just looked up the free school meal intake and I suppose no surprises that Yerbury has only 13 percent of children on free school meals which is way below the Islington average of 49 percent. How the hell does that happen? Grafton is 41 per cent Tufnell Park 45 per cent this has to be down to some serious social engineering on the part of parents with pointy elbows...Inclined to be more impressed by schools that get Good or Outstanding when the intake properly represents the whole London community.
Have a visit planned for Tufnell Park so will reserve judgment. I realise this sounds churlish when other parents do not even have a school place that is local and I'm here complaining 'poor me I've got an outstanding school' but I'd like if possible to find a school that embodies the principles and values we as a family feel are important, that has a balanced intake truly representing the community we live in.

Um Islington's resisdential property makeup is broadly million pound terraces interspersed with affordable/council housing, so most Islington primaries are bound to be mixed. With the Yerbury, virtually all the streets surrounding it (Beversbrook, Gatscombe, Dalmeny) are million pound terraces, so it is not really "social engineering of the middle-classes" as such, but the fact the school happens to be situated in an area of higher socio-economic intake, which then enables a school like the Yerbury to become "good", so you could argue the school is actually perfectly representing the area it is in.

Due to Islington Council now providing universal FSM to all primary schools, is it still possible to find out who would have been "entitled" to them by previous criteria?

And actually if you are in the Yerbury catchment, you have a virtually zero chance of Grafton and Tufnell Park, as the catchments do not overlap (by a long way), and because they are popular places do not really come up (maybe from Year 3 onwards but to move her after so long at Yerbury would actually be disruptive). And actually, the majority do go to the local Acland Burghley - I think the figure is around 60%, with some going to Camden Girls too.

@crasynana

Yes.

Who would be entitled to Free School Meals under the national scheme is very carefully collected by Islington Schools, partly because FSM is an important deprivation indicator which affects funding for the Borough and partly because the pupil premium has a direct effect on the funding of the school.

You do sound churlish, at least you recognise this but if I was sending my dc to reception at Yerbury next year I'd be dreading meeting you and having you make assumptions that I couldn't mix with people from other backgrounds just because I lived in a house in a salubrious terrace. Imo it's ludicrous inverse snobbery but good luck to you.

Pulp's 'Common People' is playing in my head as the soundtrack to this thread.

Just take the school you've been offered.

Yeah well I'll take that from you areyoutheregoditsmemargaret & Charlesryder- quite clear from your past posts that you don't ever intend on your children rubbing up against 'the common people'!

And my assumptions of you would be correct based on the school choices you've made for your kids. It always seems to me that parents who want to send their kids to private school want their cake and eat it. You want to be able to send your child to an elite school that deselects anyone who doesn't meet the various criteria the school has chosen but you don't want anyone to make you feel bad about your choices either.

Nobody is going to feel bad for the tiny percentage of the population who are wealthy enough to afford to live in the Yerbury catchment area because of me questioning the intake, least of all the parents. They are not a powerless voiceless group with no options.

I'm not an inverted snob - I just want a school with a balanced intake and Yerbury does not have a balanced intake IMO. Tufnell Park & Grafton do. That is what I'd like - mind blowing I know. There are countless posters on here who talk about their concerns about sending their kids to schools with a large Free School Intake - didn't see you reading them the riot act about blatant snobbery. Maybe it just feels strange when the boot is on the other foot?

My friends kids are at Yerbury and love it and will go to Acland.

I wouldn't send my kids to a school based on socio-economic, politics, religion or gender. I would send to a school that "felt" right and whose teachers enjoy teaching kids.

Whether you want to select a school with a wider intake or prefer to select a school with a narrow intake, you are putting your "politics" ahead of the interest of your child and making a mistake. The intake is not relevant. If you live in London, you live in diversity. If you live near the Holloway Road and in Islington your children will grow up surrounded by variety and diversity no matter how expensive your house. Compare it to living in a village outside Truro!

Oh and one other thing. Our primary has over 50% FSM. You still have to make an effort to get your kids to "mingle" in the diverse way you seem to be keen on. The parents at the school gates and the kids in the playground have a amazing tendency to keep "to their own". Sweeping generalisation alert, but those on benefits don't seem to want to talk to the "posh" lot and probably visa versa. All that "mixing" you think will happen, probably won't.

Um OP noone is forcing you to go to the Yerbury. There are 10 or so Islington primaries which would currently have places, all of which are more "representative" than Grafton or Tufnell Park, with very dedicated teachers who do very well by their pupils - in fact your closest, Pooles Park has a very similar value added score to Tufnell. But I see, it's only when it becomes "trendy" with a shinking catchment, and a virtually zero chance if getting in from where you live that it enters your radar, and you want to get your PFB in.

Are you suggesting that your child will somehow become in a bubble by being at the Yerbury? I can assure you, living in Islington, your child will be guaranteed to be very street-wise, you are hardly in the Cotswolds.

I wouldn't be so sure about availability of places in Islington. Lat year they had to put on 3 bulge classes (80 places) and all but 4 of them were immediately filled. They announced two bulge classes for this year before admissions deadline, and it was quite likely more would be needed.

Are there really that many schools with vacancies for this September at this stage?

@auntiestella

Islington Admissions report that they have places for all children who applied this year, and all children will therefore get an offer in the end, if they are not part of the 90 per cent who already have one. In more detail they explain (I have taken this from a notice on my local residents website)

"At this stage (5 May 2014) there are 171 children in the whole of Islington who did not get an offer for a school for which they expressed a preference. This is out of a couple of thousand applications.

This is a similar number to last year and we also have a similar number of vacant places available in Islington at this stage as we had last year.

This means that we can expect all applicants will eventually get an offer."

They went on to explain:-

"In Islington if some one does not get an offer of a place for one of their preferences we hold on to see whether a place becomes available for them, at one of their preferences. Places become available in two ways:-

1. People who have been offered for one of their preferences decline the offer. The main reason for this at this stage is that people’s circumstances have changed between the closing date of 15 January and offer day. A second reason which can be important in a few areas is that people have been awaiting a place at a private school which they did not know about on 15 January and have been using the state application as a back up.

1. Then after the second round of offers have been made enabled by the first round offers rejected, some people who were offered on the first round, get a second offer for a higher preference than before, accept that and so free up their original offer. Which then allows a third wave of offers to be made, and so on. Also as time passes people who have accepted an offer in good faith find their circumstances have changed - move house - move out of London - and relinguish the places. We call this the “churn”

By hanging on we aim to offer as many parents as possible one of their preferences rather than an allocation outside that. And to offer people the highest preference possible. So for example, some people who did not get their first preference on offer day, will by the end of the summer.

Last year, the number of people in Islington who had to be allocated at the end of the process to a school they had not applied for reduced to five. By the end all applicants had an offer for a primary school place in Islington, and there was a small surplus of places."

I have heard, but have not been able to confirm that the number of children without an offer for one of their six preferences, had, by the end of last week, fallen to 144.

It is also worth mentioning that the great majority of children without an offer for one of their six (yet) live in South Islington.

Blimey I've really trod on a nerve - amazes me that there are so many threads on Mumsnet about parents anxiety on choosing the right school for their child that are given reasoned rational responses but when I suggest that I would prefer a school with a balanced intake I am labelled as an inverted snob on the look out for a 'trendy' school. I am not sure what that even means mumoftwo? Plus, Pooles Pk is miles away from me, do you even know this part of London?

I find your reply MDOOSOD very depressing. The whole 'you have to do what's best for your child' argument leaves me cold. I do not subscribe to that view not because I do not wish the best for my child but because it is such a short sighted view. What I ultimately think is best for my child is for them to live in a more equitable society that harnesses the talents of all it's members not just a few. I could not separate my values from school choices nor would I wish to. For me that is one of the most important factors in my decision process - I believe that schools can and are a great engine for good in society. All the evidence suggests that high quality all-ability schools with balanced intakes are the best way of ensuring that EVERY child receives a first-rate education. I have no illusions that there will be some wonderful coming together of the classes in the playground but I do know that a balanced intake works to benefit teachers, children, (particularly those on FSM) parents & community and that is what I aspire to.