Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Please can I have a moan about expectations about school clubs?

104 replies

TheGruffalo2 · 10/05/2014 08:59

After school clubs and activities does not automatically mean high quality teaching and learning; it means knackered teachers after they've taught clubs until 4.30/5pm, then have to clear up their classroom, mark, plan, etc. Or teachers that don't eat lunch and have a disorganised classroom for the afternoon session.

Sorry - being a bit ranting as we've had a spate of parents complaining we don't run enough clubs, so we are a crap school. Every night, except staff meeting nights, there are at least three clubs running and every lunchtime at least two, all staffed by teachers working unpaid. We have a spread of types, so not all sports clubs. We have a spread sheet to ensure we have a reasonable number for each year group, rather than just the older children.

But apparently we are lazy teachers, have poor standards of teaching(despite above national standards of attainment and progress) and (most hurtfully) don't care about the children.

We are doing the best we can; we can't change the gymnastics club to the night X wants as the hall is already being used for a dance club; we can't run a free Chinese club if no staff have that language skill; we can't run a club on Wednesdays to suit your childcare as we all have to attend the staff meeting; and most amusingly, we can't run a swimming club if we don't have a swimming pool.

Sorry, rant over (triggered by just opening another work email from a parent about it saying they were making an appointment to see the HT to complain that my cookery club is ending at half term so I can lead a different gardening one - we usually run clubs on a half termly rotation so we can give variety). I am really annoyed by the assumption of a large number of very vocal parents that a variety of clubs, staffed by teachers equates to outstanding teaching and learning.

Now breathe, Gruffalo, and return to your report writing!

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
christinarossetti · 11/05/2014 08:39

I read something recently about HTs including teacherss' extent of involvement in 'enrichment' activities in appraisals, hence performance related pay. Not all schools, obviously, but maintained as well as academies, free or independent schools.

I was quite stunned, given the unprecedented pressure that teachers are currently under.

In our primary, the only teachers involved with running after school or lunch time clubs are the art, music and P.E teachers, who don't have the same level of paperwork as classroom teachers. These are either free or cost 2 pounds a session (no charge to children who have FSM).

I would be horrified at the idea of my children's teachers having to run a club after school having been at work since before 8am and no doubt working many hours afterwards.

Retropear · 11/05/2014 08:56

Christina I agree.

They shouldn't be forced onto teachers.Quite frankly I'd rather have a fresher teacher the following day rather than one who has been forced to teach an extra hour after school.

If they enjoy doing and want to do it that is entirely different.Most people can judge for themselves if they have the headspace or time.Teacher's circumstances and family life will differ.

They're nice if on offer but shouldn't be expected.We're warned at our school that they need to be cancelled at times.Didn't stop the mother in the queue I was in outside the office ranting at the inconvenience given to her when one was cancelled.Hmm

They're not childcare,if you want something uber reliable pay for after school club.

Bilberry · 11/05/2014 09:31

We have an after school club but that is a paid childcare facility run by seperate staff. I think there may be a teacher-run gardening club but otherwise all clubs are external and paid for seperately.

I would reply to the parents that you are delight to hear their children enjoyed the cooking club and would be happy to offer advise if they wish to take on running it.

rollonthesummer · 11/05/2014 09:40

Clubs we run are definitely memti

rollonthesummer · 11/05/2014 09:40

Clubs we run are definitely mentioned in our performance management!

OnlyOnSundays · 11/05/2014 09:42

And discussed when people are applying for UPS, rollonthesummer.

rollonthesummer · 11/05/2014 10:01

Yes-I did three the year I went through threshold! What a joke x

christinarossetti · 11/05/2014 14:31

What's UPS?

mrz · 11/05/2014 14:34

Upper Pay Scale

ravenAK · 11/05/2014 14:51

Yes - it's been made abundantly clear at our place that if you're on UPS, you have to justify it by running enrichment activities.

& if you're on MPS, you have to run them in order to build a case for getting through threshold.

So the only teachers who aren't doing something are those imminently contemplating retirement, & only then if they're tough enough to the HT when he drops hints like breeze blocks to the effect that it would be lovely if someone would start a chess/baking/light opera club.

I've found the trick is to book a big residential trip through an outside company who actually deal with all the logistics. Then bore on all year about the HOURS of work this trip is entailing & what a NIGHTMARE it all is, so that by Christmas everyone's sick of hearing it & no-one wants to set you off by suggesting you take anything else on...Wink.

MilkRunningOutAgain · 11/05/2014 18:46

The kids primary runs a few free teacher led clubs that are OK but frequently get cancelled due to teachers other commitments. I'm not complaining, my DS went to the teacher run cross country club after school and loved it so much he's joined an excellent paying local athletics club. Without the school club he might not have realised how much he liked long distance running. And my dd loves her singing club. And the school also gets in several private providers who run choir, music, drama, judo and football clubs that are popular and generally excellent, and can be relied on to run every week term time. They do cost money but it isn't extortionate. I think the school organises all this very well. Last summer term they hired two swimming teachers and offered daily crash courses in the swimming pool after school for the last month of term, I'm hoping they do it again this year, the kids actually got enough practice to make significant progress.

Parents are in my experience pleased with the clubs and we do thank the teachers and anyone else that's involved. I personally find it handy as the clubs frequently mean I can pick the kids up straight from them rather than arrange childcare ( frequently more expensive than the clubs) as I work. But I don't expect the school to provide childcare for me, I just think I'm lucky.

Are you near some schools that offer loads of clubs OP, particularly private schools? And are parents comparing? Either way it does sound unreasonable.

KittyandTeal · 11/05/2014 18:56

Our old head had a brilliant way of dealing with this kind of thing (we're the same, tons of free clubs but the parents want more/different ones)

Her response was 'what a wonderful idea, all our staff are currently running other clubs but if you let me know who will run it and when I'll let you know what room you can use' all with a delighted tone of voice :)

As teachers we would listen in and snigger :)

None of the parents ever took up her offer. Wonder why!

Soveryupset · 11/05/2014 21:36

Our school must be from Mars then as none of the teachers run any clubs whatsoever, lunch or after school.

I wouldn't expect them to, but I do find it shocking that the school doesn't at least try and provide some afterschool or lunchtime activities, even if paid (there must be some agencies/companies that do it?) for children who cannot afford to be carted to all the out of school activities, making the difference between have and have nots even greater...

In other schools locally children on FSM get lots of afterschool activities free and I feel this is very positive.

OnlyOnSundays · 11/05/2014 22:21

Our school has a small hall which is used for lunches and private hirings (ballet school) after school, so is only available for teacher-led clubs two evenings a week after school; currently country dance and gymnastics.

The small playground doesn't have space for sports clubs as well as the playtime at lunch time, but can accommodate a single activity after school. Teachers run two evenings (multi-skills and netball) and a private company runs two more (rugby and tennis).

They also use the classrooms for cookery, origami, art, computer coding, guitar, recorder, photography and scrabble, all run by staff. However, parents are complaining there aren't enough clubs, especially for sporty kids. But what is the school to do with lack of space for sports clubs and staff already busy? The idea of a longer school day with clubs after the end of lessons doesn't take into account the reality of small school buildings, with a single hall and limited field/playground space.

Dozer · 12/05/2014 06:43

On a small point, OP's school could deal with late pick ups by charging for the unscheduled care or having the policy that DC will be taken off lists for clubs if not picked up promptly.

Dwells, in your case you could challenge the school on fairness, eg ome child doing 4clubs when others can't get into any. Parents (in your opinion) using them for childcare is not really relevant, the problem is how the school mangages demand

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 12/05/2014 07:27

I really appreciate the free lunchtime clubs at school and the ones we pay for too.

Hope that helps a little bit.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 12/05/2014 07:35

Dozer, our after school club wouldn't have a space for a child like that, plus they'd need to have filled in all the ASC paperwork previously.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 12/05/2014 07:38

Dozer, our after school club wouldn't have a space for a child like that, plus they'd need to have filled in all the ASC paperwork previously.

Yangsun · 12/05/2014 07:44

I couldn't agree more, I voluntarily run a drama group at a local school (where I am not employed!) and constantly have parents complaining that I won't have their child in my oversubscribed club unless they can commit to being in the performance at the end. Apparently I'm the one denying them an opportunity!

Yangsun · 12/05/2014 07:44

I couldn't agree more, I voluntarily run a drama group at a local school (where I am not employed!) and constantly have parents complaining that I won't have their child in my oversubscribed club unless they can commit to being in the performance at the end. Apparently I'm the one denying them an opportunity!

InMySpareTime · 12/05/2014 07:45

If parents are persistently late, tell them you are perfectly within your rights to call SS and report their child as abandoned.
That'll put the frighteners on them!

I tried to offer an after school club at DD's school, but was told it's their policy not to promote parents' businesses. I'm a storyteller and author, I wanted to run a creative writing club.
their 'non promotion' policy seems not to extend to PTA parents' businesses, which get plugged all the time. Funny that...
Their loss.

MidniteScribbler · 12/05/2014 07:49

for children who cannot afford to be carted to all the out of school activities, making the difference between have and have nots even greater...

But this is placing the expectation on teachers to solve this aspect of society by adding additional unpaid hours to an already massive workload. If people find all children having equal access to this sort of clubs as being vital, then lobby your politicians to demand that they provide provisions for this either through funding for external agencies to run them. Or you could volunteer to run one yourself.

PickledPorcupine · 12/05/2014 07:51

My quality of marking definitely decreases on club nights. I can't take books home (cyclist) so I can't start them until 4:45 after a club and then get turfed out of school at 5:45. 1 hour to mark 90+ books!

I get so frustrated with parents not saying thanks, and we do inform them that it's all completely voluntary and none of us get paid for running them (and yes running also includes spending time planning, buying resources, risk assessments and organising transport for away matches etc etc). In my experience, having taught in primary for quite a few years, the number of clubs being offered is gradually decreasing because more and more is being expected of teachers and many feel they simply cannot run them.

VanGogh · 12/05/2014 08:46

I used to be an external provider of after school clubs. We were a paid club, funded by parents although occasionally a school would buy us in and then supply the club to it's pupils for free or at a discounted rate.

After school clubs are bloody hard work. Any decent external club will have hours of prep, training, resources, planning and also experienced staff who, despite being in charge of your DC for an hour, will be on site for nearer to 2 hours.

Teachers running clubs have to do all that prep, planning and sourcing of resources IN ADDITION TO their ridiculously long days. Some teachers PAY for the resources your child uses at the club (ingredients, chalk/art supplies/fabric/music) They are in effect paying for your child's place. How is that fair?

Anyone who thinks clubs are a cheap doddle should run one!

As a note...I offered the club and freebies (big exciting whole school assemblies) to every school in three counties ('twas my job) the biggest response from school offices was "Our parents won't pay for clubs" although they wouldn't actually offer a club to let the parents decide. Most of the time, your school secretary decides this all by themselves. If you want external providers in, the school office are usually the people refusing. I appreciate that they may be parroting the head's decision but still, if parents want clubs then they need to get involved!

Hats off to teachers running clubs. I recently emailed my secondary music teacher to thank her for her 8am, lunch, after school and even weekend sessions (some just to help catch me up) and for everything she did in putting on spectacular concerts. As a teen I just took her for granted.

stealthsquiggle · 12/05/2014 08:58

There seems to be a strong expectation that teachers will run clubs at DC's (fee paying) school. They are all chargeable, and I hope that money does make it through to the staff that run them but I don't know for sure.

In any case, I am shocked by the lack of thanks that teachers are reporting here. I expect DD to say thank you to the teacher at the end of each session, and I thank them when I pick her up, as a minimum. Paid or not (and it's not a lot of money), these teachers are giving up their spare time (actually, effectively, extending their working days as they have to do preparation work after clubs instead of after school) to do fun stuff for the DC.