Please can I have a moan about expectations about school clubs?

[TheGruffalo2]

After school clubs and activities does not automatically mean high quality teaching and learning; it means knackered teachers after they've taught clubs until 4.30/5pm, then have to clear up their classroom, mark, plan, etc. Or teachers that don't eat lunch and have a disorganised classroom for the afternoon session.

Sorry - being a bit ranting as we've had a spate of parents complaining we don't run enough clubs, so we are a crap school. Every night, except staff meeting nights, there are at least three clubs running and every lunchtime at least two, all staffed by teachers working unpaid. We have a spread of types, so not all sports clubs. We have a spread sheet to ensure we have a reasonable number for each year group, rather than just the older children.

But apparently we are lazy teachers, have poor standards of teaching(despite above national standards of attainment and progress) and (most hurtfully) don't care about the children.

We are doing the best we can; we can't change the gymnastics club to the night X wants as the hall is already being used for a dance club; we can't run a free Chinese club if no staff have that language skill; we can't run a club on Wednesdays to suit your childcare as we all have to attend the staff meeting; and most amusingly, we can't run a swimming club if we don't have a swimming pool.

Sorry, rant over (triggered by just opening another work email from a parent about it saying they were making an appointment to see the HT to complain that my cookery club is ending at half term so I can lead a different gardening one - we usually run clubs on a half termly rotation so we can give variety). I am really annoyed by the assumption of a large number of very vocal parents that a variety of clubs, staffed by teachers equates to outstanding teaching and learning.

Now breathe, Gruffalo, and return to your report writing!

Gruffalo- they are taking the piss!
My children are all in fee-paying schools, and they all charge heftily for late pick-ups, whether the club is free or pay. As in £25 charge for late pick-up, even 5 minutes.
As I said, some clubs/activities are free and some are chargeable, my children do a mixture of each, and access to them is done fairly, so for example if they're oversubscribed, one can do the activity for a term only, then someone else gets a turn. I think this is fair, as all get to have a chance, and it means the 'free childcare' is shared out evenly.

We really appreciate all the clubs/activities organised- my children get so much pleasure from them, and it makes the lives of parents easier too- win/win really. We would never demand clubs, or pick-up late though- most teachers are parents too, and we know they have lives outside of work. They're there from 7:30am in many cases.

We have a parent who has signed her child up for EVERY club we run, despite the fact that it is clearly obvious he has no interest in being there and that it is just seen as free childcare. And she is still late to pick him up, every day!

And the answer to more than late pick-ups is do not allow child to do the activity again. I know the child is penalised, but honestly- sometimes that's the only way to get through to some people. (pesterpower has a lot to be said for it!)

The teachers at my DCs school run several clubs, mostly the lunchtime ones, but also some after school sports and art clubs. The older KS2 children also run several lunchtime clubs including a book club and a games club, both without much staff involvement at all in the running.

However, the majority of before and after school clubs are run by external professionals who are independent of the school (i.e. just using the premises) and who charge fees. This includes various sports clubs, mad science, gymnastics and dance.

Could your school approach any local businesses that run those sorts of groups/classes and see if they are interested in coming and running clubs while charging parents. Perhaps the school could offer a free venue for them (as I know it looks good for the school to be able to offer clubs) so the costs for parents are kept to a minimum.

The parents who complain are ungrateful arses - I doubt that anything you say will change them.

I am a teacher in an 'outstanding' school. No teacher runs any club. We just don't have the time. We have pupil progress meetings, staff meetings, senior team meetings, team meetings...on top of the usual marking and planning.
If we were also asked to volunteer our time to run after school clubs I think it would tip us over the edge. And then for parents to complain...!

I am in shock that this (teachers running clubs) actually still happens in some schools-hats off to you, I have no idea where you find the time.

We do have a range of after school clubs each evening but most are run by external agencies and have a fee attached. A few are run by willing parents and are free. Our pupil premium funding is used to pay for clubs for specific children if they can't afford it.

I have never heard a single complaint about the lack of staff volunteers for clubs;I think parents understand how hard we all work and honestly don't expect it.

Ds old school adopted the approach informing parents who were continually late at pick up, that their dc would have to be taken to the Kids Club and they would be charged accordingly!

Enchanted,

At all the schiools I have worked in (very different in terms of size and catchment) it has been an expectation that all teachers, and many TAs, runs a club at some point in the school year. The head, deputy etc always run them too.

I happen to run a club that happens all year round, others run clubs that run for one or two terms (for example there is a rounders club in the summer but football, run by a different member of staff, runs only in the winter terms).

Although I know that some local schools have slightly fewer staff members running clubs, I know of none where there are none IYSWIM.

Back as a treat for finishing half a dozen science reports (rather have but next reports need to be coherent!). Thank you for your support. I'm feeling better about it now people have said I'm not crap for not running extra clubs.

I agree with someone who posted that they are free child care. If we have a club until 4.30 and they can get away with not collecting until a bit later than that they can avoid paying for the after school care.

It is amazing how different schools can be! Yes, we do have many brilliant parents, but there seem to be more and more who have an attitude such as my OP towards the staff and remind us we are public servants and "we pay your salary", and as such should do exactly as tell us both individually and as a school.

I have to say that our Headteacher is amazing, she has high expectations of the staff in terms of workload but is also fair. She understands the pressures that are faced by teachers with the pupil progress demands being raised constantly.
If teachers had to put off their hours of after school work in order to run a club first she would be the first to remind us of work/life balance.

I hope she never leaves!

I am always shattered when I run after school clubs, we are all expected to run one a term, rotating the 'theme' as the op says.

I enjoy being with the children outside the classroom, but will not have stopped all day, no marking fairy will have come and sorted the four piles of 30 books out and lots of parents will be late picking up ( there is one girl I regularly walk home as she lives 2 mins from the school, I find her parents in, never grateful)

When my dcs go to after school clubs, I am eternally grateful to staff and they know it!!! my cm always collects on time ( I cant collect, I am taking someone elses child home!!)

My school never charges for clubs. But I was quite interested to hear from a friend working in a "poor" inner city borough that they charge a nominal £1 for each after school session. She reckons that children and parents think about signing up in the first place, and then value the club. I'll certainly be suggesting this for next year in our school as I'm fed up of children dropping out or not turning up.

My point exactly. If you charge for them then the parents value them more.

sad though that some parents don't just value them automatically.

My DC go to a large city primary, most of the after school clubs are run by outside organisations - except the actual 'after school club' (i.e. childcare) which has its own staff, who are on school payroll but not teachers.

I worked in a boarding school where had to run two compulsory hour long clubs per week until 5pm. I was often really tired because our first lesson was at 8am, and was often desperate to use the time to mark books and plan lessons instead. Sometimes, they would be on the same day as a parents' evening (ours were 7pm-10pm).

I was never thanked for running the clubs, not by the school, pupils or parents. Sometimes, parents turned up at 5.30 or later to pick up their children, meaning I couldn't go home.

Don't do it! No one can force you.

Some of my df's friends (retirees in their late 60s / 70s) run clubs at local schools (drama, knitting etc) and love it. They get to spend time with children who are learning and also pass on their knowledge. They have time to prepare for the clubs too. Would this be an option?

The parents complaining are ungrateful arseholes!!

Honestly I expect to have to pay fir after school activities, and the free ones a're a bonus snd we always let the school and staff know how grateful we are!

As an aside my boys high school is trying to enforce complusory after school activities till 5pm three days a week, these will be run by the teachers (for no extra pay) they start the school day at 8:40. My kids go by bus so will be put from 7:40-6pm!! I think it's too much and not fair on the teachers and I am letting the school know my feelings on the issue! Sadly it's just become an academy (in the last year) so we have little say as parents :(

"Don't do it! No one can force you."

While, of course, this is technically true, it can be unpleasant if the expectation of the school is that all staff run clubs. I mean, I could refuse to run a club, but can i claim that I genuinely less able to give up an hour of my week than every other member of staff? Than those TAs, much less well paid than me, who cheerfully run their clubs? Than the head and deputy, who often stay in school late into the night for meetings once the clubs they run are over?

Also, by running free / very low cost in-school clubs, I feel we are going a tiny way to redressing the balance between the 'haves' - those children whose parents can afford the time and money to take them to out of school sports / music / art / drama / dance etc etc provision - and the 'have nots', who do not have access to such opportunities. Our pupil premium children have first access to all clubs for exactly this reason. The school football club, for example, contains at least one outstanding player who might, in other circumstances, have been scouted by a local professional club, or at least play with a serious out of school club, but because of lack of transpiort and the need to visit non-resident parent for many weekends does not get the opportunity to do so. The coaching that child gets through the after school club run by the PPA sports teacher - a part time semi-professional himself - goes a very tiny way to developing their very obvious talent.

The only free after school club which is good at out school is the music club and I know my DS teacher puts in a lot of effort with it. My son really enjoys it and asks his teacher if he can rejoin every term if there are any spaces. The other's are quite expensive and not great. Chess is run during lunchtime and costs £55. My son didn't want to take it up because it was during playtime. The reason I sign my son up to after school clubs is not for the "free childcare" but to try to encourage him to do something else after school other than sitting in front of the TV! Also, our school day finishes really early compaired to most other schools, so if we didn't do any other extra activities he would be bored by 4pm!

Well that's all very admirable teacher, I clearly have a much more developed sense of self preservation. Spending time with my own children would be a much higher priority than spending time with ungrateful children and parents who more than likely won't even remember their teacher's names in 15 years time.

It drives me nuts when people are guilted into doing unpaid work for often little tangible gain. Maybe for the odd few children it might make a difference, but most would be just as happy with an extra hour playing outside.

And if more teachers stood up and said no, maybe your school would be shamed into paying the TAs properly. Not paying TAs for that is outrageous, they're not exactly paid much are they?

Each one of the four teachers in our small primary runs a club once a week. TBH it has never occurred to me to be anything but enormously grateful that our ever-giving dynamic headmistress takes it upon herself to teach the reception class gardening on a Monday till 4.30pm.

I have been 'required' to run a club as were all teaching staff which isn't allowed under our T&Cs. The only exception was the head teacher of course. She couldn't possibly commit.

Now there's Performance Related Pay and free school/ academies teachers are being denied pay rises if they refuse. Sod targets and (free) subject leadership, now there's a new stick to beat us with.

The parents at my school were incredibly grateful. Not that they expressed it explicitly but their outrage that there was no free teacher led child care club on Fridays after school must have meant they really valued what we did.

I'd quite like to volunteer to do an after school class as a parent.
I have no skills though. What could I do? Rounders sounds easy!