Division in year 4

[LingDiLong]

DD has come home with some division for her maths homework this week. Maths is not her strong point (or mine!) and she's only confident with basic division. This work includes the kind of division where you have a 'remainder' and also dividing a smaller number by a larger one. She can't remember how she was taught this. How do they work this type of division out these days? I don't want to potentially confuse her but it would be good to help her have a stab at it. Tia

bump. wish I could help but I have to get my dad to help with my dd yr 4 maths homework as she's top set. over my head and like being 15 again sitting at the table trying to understand it

What sort of numbers are we dividing?

Has she seen remainders at all before? If not - the simplest way to explain the concept is to give a practical example - we have 5 sweets and 4 people, how can we divide it among them? Once she gets this concept, you can do it with bigger numbers. If you have 73 sweets and 9 people -- you look for the nearest divisible number - from times tables, for e.g., and the rest is what's left.
With dividing the smaller number by larger one - the concept can be explained with sweets again :). Now we divide 2 sweets among 4 people and end up with a half (a fraction). If she is aware of fractions and reducing them, than it's what she'll need to do.

Don't know if it's helpful at all, sorry.

There is a book that you might want to look at - called "Math for Mums and Dads" - it talks about how math is taught these days and what it different from the way we learned it. The author has a teenage version as well - about algebra. I found it quite usefull.
www.amazon.co.uk/Maths-Mums-Dads-Rob-Eastaway/dp/0224086359

One more thought - I normally don't worry about whether I explain math it to my daughter the exact way she is explained at school. I believe that math is about understanding concepts and once she gets them - it's not a problem to apply them in different ways....

You could explain the remainder using a number line.

So 93/4 you would do a first jump to 40 and write 10x above it, then another to 80, write 10x above that and then a jump to 92 with 3x written above it. You can't make another jump so you have 13 r1.

Or you could do a backwards number line doing to same thing but starting at 93 and working your way down to 1.

Or she could have been taught chunking but unlikely if they're going straight to remainders.

Tbh homework is supposed to consolidate a skill they have already been taught and grasped, so rather than guess I'd return it with a note saying she didn't know how to do it asking the teacher to explain it again.

What's her method for basic division?
Dividing smaller number by larger ones sounds very danced for yr 4 especially if maths is her weak point.
If she has no idea of even where to start her teacher needs to know. She has clearly not been taught/understood the relevant stuff.
I did some work with level 5 yr sixes this week. We were dividing 3digit numbers by 2 digit numbers using multiplication (I think it's the same as chunking)
Eg.
642 / 34
So the method suggested was essentially to find out how many times 34 goes into 642. By using multiplication.
Starting with the easy multiplications first
Step 1 - 34 x 10= 340
Step 2- 642 - 340= 302
Step 3 - 34 x 5 = 170
Step 4 - 302 - 170 = 132
Step 5 - 34 x 3 = 102
Step6 - 132 - 102 = 30

Soooo after all that we have found that 34 goes into 642, 18 times (10+5+3) and we have 30 left over.
So the answer is 642/34 = 18 remainder 30

Ta dah! Clear?

Personally think that what she has been asked to do sounds well beyond what yr 4 should be working on.

Josuk, she claims to have no knowledge of remainders but that doesn't necessarily mean she hasn't been taught it! Dh managed to find a simple method to help her with both the remainders and the small numbers divided by large numbers. I think you're probably right and using the exact same method isn't as important as I think it is. Will look up that book, thanks!

Thanks for the other replies, I don't understand chunking at all, oh dear, i really do need to brush up on my maths! I am heartened to hear that this sounds like difficult work for a year 4. Often the level of work mums net kids work to seems so much more advanced than my own children's work so I was half afraid that someone would say she should have learned this in year 3 or something! Hopefully she still has plenty of time to grasp division then. She usually uses times tables or we physically get some money/marbles or whatever to divide up. Thanks so much to everyone for replying!

Glad you found something to help.
Using times tables is a really good way.
I still think you ought to have a conversation with her teacher.
She should be able to tell you what methods they're being taught to you can support her better.
She really shouldn't being homework that she can't even begin to complete without a lot of adult help.

Several options here.

You can seriously simply type in 'how to do long division with remainders' - and see what comes up on the web. This takes a bit of exploring (and sometimes your own maths ability to determine which to show your child) - but there are some great resources/ you tube videos out there.

Cool maths for kids has some nicely laid out lessons on how to do long division here: www.coolmath4kids.com/long-division/long-division-lesson-1.html

Many have discovered the free learning website Khan academy (which started with maths but is expanding).

Here's Salmon Khan's lesson on division with remainders: www.khanacademy.org/math/arithmetic/multiplication-division/long_division/v/long-division-with-remainder-example - it's sort of old fashioned chalk board & listening to his explanation - but we have used this kind of thing successfully with DDs when they need another example or a reminder of how to do it.

Your second question is quite specific so may be easier if I work through an example:

say it's 5 divided by 25
----__
25 | 5

First off 25 can't go into five so you know the answer is going to require you adding decimal places.
---__
25|5.0

Now this is counter intuitive - but don't worry about the decimal right now - put it in but just work on the answer and worry about the decimal places later.
--- _
25|50

well 25 can go into 50 - 2 times.

---2
25|50

but now you need to return the decimal places (you had one decimal place in 5.0 - so you need one decimal place in the answer).

---0.2____
25 |5.0

The zero is added as a place marker to help show the answer is