Should I be worried?

[StiffGandT]

DD2 is 6.5 and seems to be struggling at school, P2 in Scotland - which is the same as Y1 in England I think.

She 'hates' reading, guesses words based on the first letter and is on level blue/4 in ORT, in bottom group in class, her spelling is pure guess work, her letter formation is poor, she doesn't seem to get letter sizing and muddles up b and d, transposes numbers, she seems to have trouble with concepts such as more than and less than.

She comes across as a bright child, lots of questions about how things work and has a very rich imagination. DD1 is a high achiever so can't judge DD2 against where she was at same age. I have an appointment with her teacher and wonder if she seems ok for her age or should I be pushing for extra help?

Thoughts please!

Has she been assessed for dyslexia?

LadySybilLikesCake do you think she should be assessed? Part of me wonders if she should be and another part of me thinks she just isn't motivated!

Hello StiffGandT:

You could be describing my DD1 at the same age (now Y6/ age 11 in English primary school) - and no sign of dyslexia.

Our issues were several:

noisy classroom/ lots of milling about/ behaviour problems - which meant that she was getting distracted or teacher was interrupted constantly

failure to really get phonics (her Class R teacher wasn't a big fan of phonics). we found alphablocks videos on Cbeebies: www.bbc.co.uk/cbeebies/alphablocks/ - we also found workbooks with jolly phonics which helped teach print style letter formation and basic sounds/ blending skills. (your school may be using something different - but most schemes have something similar - jolly phonics workbooks here: www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_19?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=jolly%20phonics%20workbooks%20books%201-7&sprefix=jolly+phonics+workb%2Caps%2C138 - they're a lot like a colouring book. DD1 missed the boat a bit for these, but did them with DD2 (when she was in Year R) and it seemed to help a lot.

Reading. - hard as it may be make nightly reading a priority. Accept that you may be initially doing the bulk of the reading - but gradually try and shift more and more reading to your DC. So maybe at first they read the odd word (The, End, In, That, Cat, Hat, etc....) and build to whole sentences. Whole paragraphs. Whole pages. We used to handle it by celebrating each type of achievement and by taking turns - i.e. if you read a whole paragraph - I'll read the next page.

Crazy letter sizes and muddle letters are typical of this age group - yes it could indicate dyslexia - but it's also about coordination/ getting used to the idea and being a bit confused (maybe even stressed) about what to do.

With numbers at this age - don't aim radically high - but work on numbers to twenty - being able to count/ add/ subtract to them. Try to support number work with actual objects. So 4 + 7 - not only on paper - but with objects a child can count. Don't discourage counting on fingers/toes at first.

My genuine advice is work at it slowly. See it as pennies in the bank - and accept that putting in the time now and over the summer will make a huge difference.

DD1 finished Y2 barely able to read or add to 20 and couldn't subtract at all - we've worked hard at home to turn it around for her. It's taken a lot of cheerleading, a lot of research and structuring my week around supporting her learning (DH & I reading ever night with her, at least 1 hour of extra maths work and some extra phonics work [mostly alphablocks] each week - but gradually it has made a huge difference) and by Year 4 she was back with the pack.

Hang in there StiffG&T - a little each day will make a difference and genuinely your DC will get there in the end.

HTH

I think so. My old neighbour's son is dyslexic. He really struggled with reading and writing, and would often get his 'b' and 'd' mixed up. It's worth looking into, the earlier you find out the easier school will be for her. A lot of dyslexic children are very bright and will try to hide the problems they are having.

Thank you Past, your advice makes a lot of sense and reassures me greatly.

I think you are right about practicing little and often, I have started trying to get DD to read 2 pages a night of a story book, rather than a school book, but it does require bribery! Will try some of the ideas you give above as well. Am currently using scrabble tiles to help her with her spelling rather than just writing words out, and using the tiles for working out sums as well, 3 tiles plus 4 tiles equals ? I guess I will just keep plugging away!

Thank you for your replies

Thanks LadySybil I am seeing the class teacher later this week and I will ask her about dyslexia then. There is no history of it in our family but she does seem to have a few traits.

When I looked into this issue for my child, I was told by many professionals that it wasn't really possible to test reliably for dyslexia until age 7. This is because (1) the test materials aren't written for anyone younger than 7, and (2) until age 7, the brain is still making lots of connections and so any issues that a child is having before that age can simply right themselves. Problems at your child's age cannot reliably be attributed to dyslexia, and so a professional is only likely to be able to say that she might be dyslexic, but she also might just have a very normal slight developmental delay which may not be an issue at all.

In the meantime, I understand that you want to do what you can to help. I would suggest that you do it all through play.

On the maths front, maybe play shop with her, counting that items that are for sale. And then count money (start with 1 pence pieces, and add and subtract with those. When she gets that, introduce 2pence pieces and endge her towards learning that 2p is worth 2 x 1p etc). And then (much) later on, introduce fractions eg cut up a cake into halves and quarters and whatever. Do you play snakes and ladders? Connect four?

On the reading front, its great that she is reading with you regularly, and Past's advice about breaking it up was given to me and I have done this for a while. It really helps. Also (abd I'm sure you know this already), small chunks of time when they are alert (ie not necessarily when they're already in bed) is best.

I prefer to think of bribery as a 'reward system'.

With the number stuff - yes anything that keeps it practical is great. Good to make it everyday as well - how many coins have I got? How many books are in your bag? Can you get 4 spoons out of the drawer? etc. Our school uses Numicon to help reinforce number concepts - I think it's a bit pricey to buy but if you google it you might be able to make your own shapes out of cardboard?

ds3 was in a similar position re reading this time last year and has made great progress this year but if I were you I would be asking the teacher what the plan is. I do think it's fairly common to be muddling up b's and d's at this age and not in itself necessarily a cause for concern (although obv you have to look at the big picture)

I did lots of modelling of sounding out and blending when we came across unfamiliar words. Then gradually got him to do more of it himself iyswim? And we read loads to him, with silly voices and loads of expression to keep that love of books going. Also we found doing a few pages in the morning and then a few in the evening was more productive than just evenings. My mum (retired primary teacher) also suggested getting him to read a couple of pages and then getting him to read the same ones again to boost his confidence.

Thank you for all the excellent advice, I really appreciate it. Knowing that we are not the only ones with these problems really helps and knowing that solid work at home will make a difference is very motivating.

Retired TA here - you have had useful advice already, but if you also look in the MN Book Reviews, "Children's educational books and courses" section, the Oxford Phonics Spelling Dictionary is a book that could support reading and spelling, right through primary school and into secondary, and it is enjoyable and entertaining to use.

Confusing b, d, p, q etc: MOST children go through that confusion at some time, as the letters are so similar - a part circle and a stick! The word bed may help, as it creates the shape of a bed. To help my slower learners, I used to write it in large letters, and draw a little 'stick person' in bed, which, of course, the kids enjoyed!

Numeracy: this is my standard advice to help with number concepts:

Practical things are best for grasping number concepts - bricks, Lego, beads, counters, money, shapes, weights, measuring, cooking.

Do adding, taking away, multiplication (repeated addition), division (sharing), using REAL OBJECTS as just 'numbers' can be too abstract for some children.

Number Bonds of Ten forms the basis of much maths work, so try to learn them. Using Lego or something similar, use a LOT of bricks (of just TWO colours, if you have enough) lay them out so the pattern can be seen of one colour INCREASING while the other colour DECREASES. Lay them down, or build up like steps.

So:

ten of one colour none of other
nine of one colour one of other
eight of one colour two of other
seven of one colour three of other

etc, etc

then of course, the sides are equal at 5 and 5; after which the colours 'swap over' as to increasing/decreasing.

To learn TABLES, do them in groups that have a relationship, thus:

x2, x4, x8

x3, x6, x12

5 and 10 are easy

7 and 9 are rather harder.

Starting with TWO times TABLE, I always say: "Imagine the class is lining up in pairs; each child will have a partner, if there is an EVEN number in the class. If one child is left without a partner, then the number is ODD, because an odd one is left out."

Use Lego bricks again, lay them out in a column of 2 wide to learn 2x table. Go half way down the column, and move half the bricks up, so that now the column is 4 bricks wide. That gives the start of 4x table.

Then do similar things with 3x and 6x.

With 5x, try and count in 'fives', and notice the relationship with 'ten' - they will alternate, ending in 5 then 10.

It is important to try and UNDERSTAND the relationships between numbers, and not just learn them 'by rote'.

I am sorry it seems complicated trying to explain these concepts, but using Lego or counters should make understanding easier.

An inexpensive solar powered calculator (no battery to run out!) can help learn tables by 'repeated addition'. So: enter 2+2 and press = to give 4. KEEP PRESSING = and it should add on 2 each time, giving 2 times table.

There are good web sites, which can be fun to use :

www.ictgames.com/

www.resources.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/maths/index.html

Many young children reverse/confuse letters when learning to read and write regardless of whether or not they are "dyslexic"

Thanks for all the useful advice.

mrz I don't think DD is dyslexic so much as just unmotivated and not really trying. Its all terribly frustrating though as I'm pretty sure she should be doing better than she is. Sometimes she seems to do much better than others which is why I think it comes down to her not being interested and engaged.

Ferguson thanks for the websites - the ict games look really good.

Tonight I did my best to make homework fun and made the maths visual with lego blocks which did seem to help.

good I don't think it's something you should be worrying about

StiffG&T:

With DD1 we found out fairly quickly that she learned best through actively doing it herself or visually doing it (responding very well to video games).

some useful websites out there for Year 2:

Woodlands Junior School Maths zone: resources.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/maths/ - just find something you want to work on and explore what games they have - I tend to play them first myself to work out if they're too hard or too easy.

Math Champs: www.mathschamps.co.uk/#home

If your school uses education city or my maths there are tons of video games on these to help with maths.

BBC Bitesize KS1: www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/ks1/ - this is for KS1 SATs preparation - but you can adjust for difficulty - includes materials for literacy/ science & maths.

Many on MN have also posted about using on-line tutorials in maths to help. There's all sorts out there:

Maths Whizz: www.whizz.com/
Mathletics: www.mathletics.co.uk/
Komodo Maths: komodomath.com/
Mathsfactor: www.themathsfactor.com/
Khan Academy: www.khanacademy.org/

Khan academy is free and the others are subscription. Have a look around and see if these appeal. I think they all have free trials.

We went with mathsfactor which was a very building block approach with a little video taped lesson from Carol Vorderman at the start of each practice session. DD1 responded well to a real live person explaining what to do and to video game format for practice. I also think it helped to see a woman could be good at maths. And of course because it was video - Carol was always cheerful and enthusiastic - although her hair styles changed wildly (which became a kind of in joke for DD1 and I). It's all well planned out, lots of info for you about how your child is doing and I personally liked the old fashioned core skills approach (but I'm older than the hills).

HTH

Thanks for taking the time to post all the links PastSellByDate, will investigate them. Now I just need to get both DD and I into a routine of doing the extra work!

Seriously - just aim for 20 - 30 minutes here and there - not even every day.

Maybe one day read a bit longer/ next day encourage your DD to play a maths video game whilst you're getting dinner ready or washing up.

A bit less tv and a bit more reading/ practising really does add up.

We tended to make tv time the reward. So for DD1 she had a target of 5 mathsfactor homeworks a week - which is about 1 hour's worth. If she got them all done, she could watch cartoons Saturday morning before swimming. Being the child who will take a mile if given an inch - she'd get all 5 homeworks done by Friday and would be up at 6 a.m. on Saturday to watch tv all morning. Can't move her in the week of course!