Writing - Level and things to work on?

[SleeplessonMN]

DS's writing is a bit "variable" - he hates it with a passion so does the minimum possible, plus is much better at some types of writing than others. Consequently I'm struggling to understand his real ability.

He produced the following for a (rare) writing homework - would be interested in what level others think it might be (it's descriptive, normally one of the areas he struggles with) and particularly what areas he should be focusing on to improve?

I've reproduced his spelling and punctuation. The handwriting is joined and reasonably well formed, if a bit sprawling and spaced out (I presume so it looks l ike he's written more than he actually has!

Her cackaling laugh echoed round the Haughnting cave. The snake in her hair were hissing as if calling me to look at her. Her blazing eyes were so fatel they could turn you in to stone in one gaze. Her skin, unlike a normal human's, was a sly, slithering snake armed with a beastly bow.

Sorry if I missed it, how old or what year is he in?

Hopefully bumping?

I deliberately didn't say what age/year DS was as I didn't want it to influence answers. I assumed the level of a piece of writing and suggestions for how to improve would be the same regardless of his age?

I'm just a parent, so don't take too much notice of me....but DS is in Y6 and has a tutor for writing. This looks rather like the sort of thing we would write and I would guess it is a high level four. It is difficult to say with so little to judge on.

We've been told that it is better to have a go at more difficult words and spell them incorrectly than to not use them.

As far as things to work on goes....more complicated punctuation is the way to go (e.g. brackets, colons, speech marks).

That advice might be way off if your son is in Y2 though!!

Hi SleeplessonMN

Just a parent but actually I think age does make a difference.

If a child wrote this in Year 1 I'd be saying WOW! Fantastic this needs encouraging!

If my DD1 wrote this in Y6 - I'd be saying same level perhaps (~Nc L4 for content - but not a teacher - so just guessing) but a lot of spelling errors/ simple errors that would be bringing down level perhaps.

The one thing I would say is each sentence is stylistically very similar:

Beginning with a noun which is then described:

Her cackling laugh/
The snake in her hair/
Her blazing eyes/
Her skin

The next logical step would be to work on rhythm of sentences - breaking up lots of long sentences with a short sentence here and there - and using that dictionary to check spellings of some great (and ambitious) vocabulary.

I know with DD1 (who's now in Y6) - they work hard on incorporating their senses in the writing.

What do you hear/ feel/ taste/ smell as well as see.

Your DC seems to be attempting it - maybe not completely.

so generally looks a very imaginative piece of writing, good ideas but maybe a bit of work on execution and rhythm.

Play the game - how can I make this more interesting with each sentence.

So Her cackaling laugh echoed round the Haughnting cave

Her cackling laugh echoed round the Haunting Cave, reverberating off the walls, stalactites and stalagmites and confusing me about her location. We were locked in a deadly game. The snakes in her hair were hissing as if calling me to look at her. I knew her blazing eyes were so fatal they could turn you into stone in one gaze.

The last sentence is a bit garbled - maybe split into two.

Her skin was unlike a normal human's, more beastly. Sly and slithering, she was armed with a bow and determined to trap me.

So great effort, lots of good ideas and I can't see there is much problem working on from there. Maybe haste had to do with the spelling errors? But I think the real issue stylistically is using the same pattern over and over - however not certain if this is writing intended to be working on that (description of a noun) or free writing, IFYSWIM?

HTH

Beginning sentences with an -ing (verb), ed (feeling or past tense) or -ly (adjective) openers would help.
For example:
Twisting and turning, the snakes...
Emblazoned, her eyes..., ...
Hauntingly, ...

Learning common spelling errors would also help.
Advanced punctuation, paragraphing (new person, place, time, event, etc.) will also help.

As a teacher I wouldn't go above a 2C on that small sample - but it isn't possible to accurately level from a single piece of work.

It definitely shows potential.

Mrz, please could you explain why you'd only give a 2c?

To me it seems that the issues, e.g. some inaccurate spelling and sentences that are grammatically incorrect or lacking some logic are only required at L3.

The writing also shows some L3 criteria e.g. handwriting is joined and legible, words chosen for variety and interest and all sentences are correctly demarcated.

I just don't understand why your assessment is that this writing is only showing features from L1 and a little from L2 (which is surely what a 2c represents)?

Whilst there is not enough evidence to clearly show L3 e.g. no variation in punctuation (although you wouldn't expect that in this type of writing) there is even evidence from L4 with respect to using punctuation within a sentence.

OP I think if you were going to focus on anything it would be the grammar and logic by encouraging your DS to proof read. For instance, can he spot that it should be snakes not snake, deadly not fatal, and that the final part of his last sentence doesn't describe skin? I think it shows a wonderful imagination and a great turn of phrase myself - well done to your DS

For a secure level 2 I would be looking for evidence that the child can write and length and sustain the readers interest but there are only 4 (good) sentences - so not enough to base judgements on.

I agree with PSBD about thinking consciously about sentence length varying the sentence structure and using punctuation for effect and descriptive phrases.

The final sentence doesn't work for me either and I don't see why there can't be a variation in punctuation in this piece.

I don't think it's far off a secure 2 but not enough there for me to be confident to award that.

Interesting interpretation of how you award levels diamondage. Is "a bit" a C, "some - probably at least half" a B and "all, or almost all" an A your school?

Across our LA we have far stricter criteria to award a level:
C = three out of AF5, AF6, AF1 and AF2 and either AF7 or AF8.
B = all the criteria achieved or just an od bullet point on the grid missed
A = all of that level and some of the level above.

Thank you Mrz.

Other than exclamation marks what other punctuation would you reasonably expect to see in descriptive writing (perhaps I've misunderstood the task)?

TheGruffalo2 you misunderstand, I'm 'just' an interested parent - I like to understand how things work hence my questions.

I gather the majority of my information about how levels should be assessed from the guidance that the government provided, e.g. the APP grids and from the APP teachers handbook.

I remember discussing this with you on another thread, specifically how the government guidance clearly states that a high level X doesn't require every criteria from that level to be met, although it does require some from the level above. However LAs issue their own guidance too which, in your case, is stricter.

I guess I'm surprised at the idea that most children at the beginning of year 2 would be writing descriptive passages like this - the start of the final sentence "Her skin, unlike a normal human's," seems particularly sophisticated, as does some of the vocabulary. When is punctuating clauses with commas (if that's the right terminology) taught?

Or to put it another way my DDs assessed at level 2a and she's nowhere near being able to punctuate clauses. Yes to using fullstops, exclamation marks, speech marks, question marks and commas in lists, or after dear etc. but clauses, definitely not!

ellipsis? but it would depend how the writing developed 4 sentences isn't enough to judge.

From that APP guidance

Making an overall level judgement

For level 2:

three of AF6, AF5, AF1 and AF2
two of AF7, AF8 and handwriting.

Refining your judgement

Look across the AFs and decide whether the level is Low, Secure or High:

Low, if there is highlighting above and below the line or the evidence is thin
Secure, if across the AFs, the criteria for the level are mostly highlighted
High, if across the AFs, all criteria for the level are highlighted.

Diamond, more advanced punctuation would also include semi colons, colons, correct use of speech marks, appropriate use of paragraphing, apostrophes, etc.
in addition, a good range of connectives used (not just 'and' or 'then'), etc.

I agree with the last phrase bejng particularly advanced for your DC's age range. It's noteworthy that although levelling has its uses, children do develop differently in their writing style. Huge leaps are often made in ine aspect of writing, while other aspects can lag behind. Your DC is making great advances in descriptive writing and may need to be encouraged to focus on other areas of writing such as sentence structure, organisation, spelling and punctuation. I'd agree that a longer passage of text (I'm not asking you to provide one) would allow for a better overall impression in these areas.

Has the OP said what age the child is?

Thanks again Mrz, I will take a more considered look when I get the chance.

JustWonderingAbout - but you don't need that sort of punctuation, or paragraphs, just to achieve a secure level 2?!?

I agree with the OP - age isn't relevant. The amount of text on the other hand....

No, you dont. However, its good to have an idea of where to head gor / lead a pupil irrespective of arguably arbitrary levels and subcategories.

Wow! Thanks for all the comments. Really interesting what a range of opinions there are (which goes to prove how subjective it all is I suppose!)

DS is in Y5. At his last parents evening his teacher tentatively suggested he was working at a level 4c. He went on to say that it was hard to say as DS's writing was so variable and his descriptive writing (hence my example) was probably the area that most needs work. Hence my question really. It is very worrying that this might be as low as a 2c (where he was 3 years ago!)

The brief for the writing was to write a paragraph describing a character from Greek myth. Due to DS spreading his writing out so much he managed to fill the space available without writing too much (he has a bad habit of doing the minimum he thinks he can get away with). He was particularly asked to try to use "interesting" adjectives and use metaphor/simile which I think he has tried to do.

Agree that he needs to work on his sentence openings and checking his work (another bad habit, also a problem in maths). The suggestions about more varied punctuation are interesting. I can see he could use a semi colon or colon or brackets, not sure what else?

I'm not sure what age range he is advanced for? (not the age range he is in, I suspect)

Wouldn't get too preoccupied with age range and levels - they are rather subjective and will often contrast poorly between current teachers' end-of-year (academic year ) findings vs new teacher's informal assessment.
More important and useful to focus upon 'next steps' IMHO.

Hi Sleepless:

I found this VCOP (vocabulary/ connectives/ openers/ punctuation) pyramid really helped me to visualise the things my DDs needed to be starting to work on in their writing: displays.tpet.co.uk/?resource=387#/ViewResource/id387

The pyramids work from the top down - with the upper part of the pyramid being easier skills and the lower part being more complicated work.

I found with DD1 that working gradually through these pyramids we could see how to make sentences more interesting/ varied - and by incorporating these things (consciously into writing homeworks) we gradually improved her results for writing at school.

HTH