School cheats

[frillysockmum]

I was wondering how many over subscribed schools do extra checks after allocations day. We got 1st choice as did about 75% of dds friends but we have several friends who narrowly missed out on distance and I am so sad for them. At the same time 2 people (not effected by it) have told me that they know some one who has cheated this year ie used some one else's address. It makes me so angry - how do we get the school to make extra checks?!?!

Hmm, I'm now slightly bothered by which means 'school cheat' got the place...

In their first post, Schoolcheat said they were of NFA.

What address should they have used, according to the rules?

And, going by what is requested when challenged, even if investigated, the place would not be removed.

The circumstances were unusual, and complicated. But I believe the system should be able to cope with that, and it couldn't. I had to put something, so I did.

This is no longer making sense to me schoolcheat. Either you lied on the application form and committed fraud, or you didn't. Which one is it?

There was nothing absolutely true I could put down. There was something that could be considered true, if you live in the confines of mainstream society. I do not wish to fully explain, as I do not wish to out myself (as I said, very unusual).

For what it's worth, I lost out twice on 'good' schools for my dc. Once because I was unemployed and couldn't afford to move into a better catchment area and the second time because I didn't find religion. It never occurred to me to try and cheat the system.

I get it, you are an alien and your space ship had no postcode. Fine, you can land your craft anywhere in the catchment area you like

I know some people would view what I did as cheating, hence cominhg to this discussion.

But I engaged with the system the only way I could. And I think instead of getting uppity, and turning detective as to who may be a 'cheat', it would be more productive to turn your energies to local political campaigning.

Oh, yeah, coz that's the only explanation. I'm an alien. And this is why I feel mainstream society cannot see beyond the end of its own nose. If you step outside that, you're lost. I didn't want DD to be lost. I accessed what society says she should access, but without putting something not absolutely true, she would not have been able to access.

Oh, yeah, coz that's the only explanation. I'm an alien. And this is why I feel mainstream society cannot see beyond the end of its own nose. If you step outside that, you're lost. I didn't want DD to be lost. I accessed what society says she should access, but without putting something not absolutely true, she would not have been able to access.

I presume that schoolcheat had no fixed address when she applied.

She put down an address within the catchment area of the school, where she was not living at the time.

She subsequently moved into the catchment (either to that address or to another one, or to a series of others).

She is justifying herself because she feels there is no obvious 'other' address she could have put down on the application form that accurately rerpresented where she lived (common sense wopuld suggest the place she was living in - but perhaps there were circumstances that made that difficult, for example living in a refuge, an asylum seeker's hostel, a place of safety where address could not be known for the family's safety or simply sofa-surfing as an informal tenant [just throwng out ideas here])

Of course, her circumstances are not unique - there will be school applicants each year where the family has no fixed address, or an address that is hard to give, and a call to the council to clarify the course of action would have been the obvious course of action. The choice to give a fraudulent address in the catchment of a good school was schoolcheat's own.

(I have taught in a school with a large number of Traveller children - who obviously have no fixed address. Yes, the process via which they get school places is somewhat 'non standard' - but it is well documented, clear and results in school places [sometimes in several schools, to accommodate dual registration at schools near to major pitching sites] Having no fixed address does not result in a lack of school place.)

I rang the LA, and was told I couldn't apply without an address, just 'computer says no'. So I used a family address which everything else that required a fixed abode is registered to. That made DD a criteria 2 child. She entered school as a criteria 2 child. This is why I justify what I did, LA gave me no alternative that I could do and access education. I don't want to give any more away, but there are other reasons why.

My main point, is don't be so bloody righteous, and stop bitching about other parents who also work within a bad system, and start sorting out the system, if you feel it doesn't serve you.

That surprises me, teachwith2kids, as when I was told 'computer says no', I asked 'but, what about everyone else?!' And was told 'computer says no'.

schoolcheat - "I think what I did was the only way for me to engage with a rigid system, without DD ending up with no school place at all".

You did not place your DC on waiting lists, appeal or anything that would indicate that what you did was the "only way" for you to avoid your DD ending up with no school place at all. In fact you LEA is obliged to find you a school place so the likelyhood of this happening is fairly remote.

What I think, going by the way you justify your need to cheat, is you cheated to get you DC into the school you wanted them to get into.

I don't consider I cheated, really

This seems to be the case with many cheats. They often feel it is OK to cheat as the outcome is what their DC deserved. The method deployed to obtain the more acceptable/favourable outcome is often irrelevant.

Had we got no school place, I would have felt DD had been cheated by the system.

So whilst it is not OK for you to feel cheated, it is OK for you to cheat and another parent to feel that way?

Sounds like you have money, and are therefore entitled to get what you want.

How can you possibly make that judgement based on what they have posted. They said they are long term residents in an expensive area (partly due to several great schools plus lots of other factors).

I live very close to a very sought after school. I bought my house 7 years ago and since this time house prices have shot up. I could never afford to buy this house if I was looking to move now.

I am particularly concerned by the fact that by your very actions you may have demonstrated to your DC that it is OK to cheat if the system is flawed.

In my book, and the message I make very clear to my DCs, it is never OK to cheat to manipulate the outcome in your own favour.

I think moaning about 'cheating' in the admission process ... Please direct your ire at something useful: campaigning to change our ridiculous lottery of school places.

I think you should take some of your own advice and instead of cheating the system, you should have tried to change it.

Maybe it just takes living in a county which historically has a large number of Travellers for there to be a process....

(However, there may also be the distinction that the Travellers were applying to the school most local to where they were encamped, regardless of its reputation. They were not trying to 'swing' access to a desirable school by satying that they were encamped near to it when in fact they were based in a site closer to the school in Special measuresd down the road, for example...) There are, also, to be fait, laws about Traveller access to education, which is historically known to be an issue.

Wish I lived where you are then, teacherwith2kids! If there had been a process, I'd have taken it.

The 'apply for school once you have a fixed address' just couldn't happen, the reasons for which I don't want to go in to, and I think from the posts here, it's all just outside most people's experience, and therefore they don't want to understand.

How do you know I'm not campaigning? I can't do it on my own... anyone with me?

schoolcheat - How many of you griping here actually campaign to MPs etc. for better access to local schools?

Actually, yes I did, along with a fairly sizeable group of other local parents (this was regarding local secondary school). The outcome - there is nothing to be done, it is all in the hands of the local schools as they are all academies so can't be made to do anything.

We have two very big issues where I am:

a) Same address being used by multiple families.

b) Short term rentals being used to obtain distance advantage - for my nearest school, 10 of the 19 children who were allocated a place on distance only no longer live in the area just one year later. There could be more but these are the only ones that could be found. The knock on affect of this is that their siblings are then given priority over local children.

If there had been a process, I'd have taken it.

I could be wrong here but I believe there is, its called a late application.

Late application would have posed the same problem, you still need an address for that. There is more to this, but I actually didn't want to make this thread about our situation, I wished to make a point, which I have made, and the continual nit picking about whether I cheated, rather than addressing the point, actually backs up my point!

I didn't do this to get into the bestest ever, highly popular school. You have a judgey picture of these 'other, cheater' parents. I'm trying to challenge that, without going into my individual, identifiable, circumstances for my DD.

There is a process for everyone. People just need to follow it. I too have been campaigning for new schools with success for future years. In the meantime the system we have is about as fair as they can get it. People should not use down false addresses - there is no excuse. A school is allocated to every child who wants a place.

No. There isn't a process for everyone. Or, possibly more likely, people at the LA don't know what the processes are, and so cannot communicate them. The form could not be submitted without an address. Is it like the census? The address you are on the night you apply? Or the deadline for applications? Or where you spent Christmas?

Anyway, for the sake of argument, I've actually just looked up the admission criteria, and even had I put down an address of where we were on the night of application (by no means the 'permanent address' asked for), DD would have been criteria 3, and would therefore have still got her place in the class.

So, no one is a victim, no one didn't get their place that should of, DD deserves her place. By putting down an address where she's never lived in order to get that application rolling, would all of you self-righteous on here still say I 'cheated'?

Late application would have posed the same problem, you still need an address for that.

I apologise, I didn't realise that you were still NFA when you met the no.2 criteria.

What I do find quite outrageous is that your local MP, local council, LEA, and schools offered no assistance in advising you on how best to apply for a school place you your particular circumstances.