school admissions

[kimajckac]

I have just applied for my 4 year old daughter to attend the reception at the school she already goes for nursery which is the same school her 6 year old sister goes to but I have been refused and offered a place at a school 2 miles from my home and its a catholic school which I feel the government are preaching to me and trying to force religion onto my child when we have no religious beliefs, I questioned the reason to why she was not given a place and it due to being outside the catchment area which i dont understand as my child got in last year and my other child got in 3 years ago and there has always been a high demand for this school, and i was told that even if I appeal I will loose and should either find another school for my youngest daughter or both my children and should take my eldest out?? I can not sleep properly and this matter is stressing me out beyond belief how can I be at 2 schools in a morning and afternoon and why should I take my child out of a school she is doing well in and happy in because the education authority wont let my youngest child go to the same school as her sister??? Im at my wits end.

do you know where you are on the waiting list? could you use breakfast, after school clubs etc to manage the drop offs / pick ups

If the school have a catchment area you got your older children in through luck. It happens all the time when parents get their older children in. See where you are on the waiting list and appeal you have nothing to lose. Hope you sort it out.

Take a look at the allocated school. You may find it is not a religious as you fear. Some faith schools are less religious than some community schools.

You can appeal for the school you want. You are not appealing against the school you have been allocated. Note that if it is an infant class size appeal your chances of success are low but it is still worth a try. You never know what will emerge in the hearing.

I'm afraid wanting your child to attend the same school as her sister is not a good case for winning an appeal. You need to show that your daughter will be disadvantaged if she doesn't go to this school.

Are you in an area with defined catchments? If so there must have been less demand when DC1 applied meaning you luckily got a space ?! Nursery admission is misleading as much much less children apply for school nurseries for loads of reasons, so getting a nursery place does not mean that loads of catchment children will not appear for reception and take priority. Did you only put the one choice? What does the admissions criteria say about siblings ? If siblings out of catchment where e.g. Priority 5 then there must simply be lots more higher up the list. Not uncommon

Well firstly the school they have allocated me is twice the distance away from the school I requested so catchments areas are out the question and the school is very religious lesson are taught by nuns, and the school as a poor ofsted from the one she goes now and they are lowering my daughters education by trying to send her there and the school can have 480 kids but only has 175 there must be a reason for this oh yes its not a very good school and us very strict

Very strict with the religion and it takes me 30 mins to get to my school now walking and would take 1 hour to walk to the allocated school and why should I pay before and after school club which is going to financially worsen me??

You are right, the question of catchment doesn't come in to it in the same way in these circumstances.

You did not qualify for any of the schools that you listed. You were therefore allocated the closest one which still had a vacancy.

what do you mean "catchments are put of the question"? I assume your first choice was an out of catchment school and you were lower in the admissions criteria than children living in catchment. did you apply to the school in your catchment area nd not get that either? I agree that things are a bit rubbish this year, I didn't get my catchment area school despite living in the same street as it! but it is risky with out of catchment schools to assume you will get in, for this reason I put down a school I loved as sixth choice: I knew I had a good chance of getting Dd1 in this year (newish school) but could very well struggle to get DD2 in there in 3 years time

Yes as I did not no it was out the catchment area as my daughter got in 3 years ago and then my other daughter got in last year for nursery and I only put 1 school down as I can not be at 2 schools at the same time and the other schools in my catchment are of poorer education standards. I will not be sending my daughter to a catholic school that is strict on religion and run by nuns that is not my idea of education and having it pushed on to my child is wrong they have low standards so poor ofsted lowering my daughters education is unbelievable and I am not standing for this at all.

The local authority have allocated you a place if you turn it down they do not have to find you another. I would accept the place and get on as many waiting lists as possible.

You need to ignore the fact that your daughter got into the nursery, it's not relevant for admission to the main school.

Check that you were definitely in the right category. If siblings out of catchment are low down on the admissions criteria than it's probably right that you didn't get a place, but some schools place siblings as higher priority than catchment. I assume you did include the information that you already have a child at this school on the form.

You can appeal, but you need to show reasons why your child needs a place at this school, not why you don't want the other school, and not why it's easier for your school run to be at this school. Saying you don't want your child to go to a school with lower standards won't help, as some children will have to go to the other schools and as far as the LA are concerned, your child is no more deserving of a better school than any other child.

It is well worth looking around other schools and considering moving your older child, or using breakfast and after school clubs.

I sadly think you haven't looked at the admissions criteria for your choice of school properly - was it defined catchment or distance? You have limited yourself to one preference without understanding that you only get in if their is a space, based on strict admissions criteria. You have ended up with what ever is left in you LEA. Nursery admission is meaningless as huge numbers of children go to reception and never go to school nurseries. You will just have to join wait lists for any schools that you would consider. You can appeal but will only win if the LEA made an error

Unless you have a plan B not using the state sector, you need to work out what to do to maximise your chances of getting a place at the school you want or another that is not anathema to you. But if you need to use a state school, do not decline the offered place until you have secured one you like better (or you risk being left with nothing).

Firstly, make sure DD2 is on the waiting list for the school you want. Also, add her to the waiting lists of any schools that are less problematic than the currently offered one.

Then, look again at the entrance criteria for the school you want, and the reason you were not offered a place (should be on the letter). Assuming that as this is reception class (entry number a multiple of 30) then class size regulations apply and you would only win an appeal if a mistake has been made. You need to see if that has happened. Do the criteria mention 'catchment' - a defined area, giving priority to children in a certain area? Or is is simply a case of shrinking distance to be close enough to get an offer? Is there a sibling category and was your DD correctly placed in it?

kim,

As you only named one school on the form, the council has acted absoluitely correctly - you did not meet the admission criteria as well as other peopkle did, and they have filled all the places.

Had you given 2nd, 3rd etc choices - in many areas this can be up to 6 - you would have had a chance of being allocated a school that may not have been ideal, but would meet your needs / beliefs better than the school you have been allocated.

'I am not standing for this' is not a helpful response - in many ways, you put yourself in this piosition by not researching issues like catchment areas / sibling priority fully, and by not putting down as second, 3rd etc chouices schools that you were reasonably happy with.

What you have to decide is what to do now. You need to fully inform yourself about your position with respect to your desired school:

• Has any mistake been made in the allocation e.g. what priority is given to suiblings inside / outide catchment? Are you definitey in the right category?
• Exactly where does the catchment area boundary run? How far are you outside it?
• Where are you on the waiting list, and historically what has the 'movement' been on this list?

You then need to find out about other schools you would be happier with than your allocated school:

• Are there any othert schools with spaces?
• Are there any schools that you would be very high on the waiting list for e.g. what catchment ARE you in, and does that give you priority for the catchment school?
• Put yourself on as many waiting lists as possible.

You then need to research the practicalities of getting children to school on time. Many, many parents use before school childcare for one or all of their children (I have used a childminder from 7.30 am for years).

• Does either school have a breakfast club?
• Would a friend of your older child be willing to walk with your older child to school / have a parent who would give them a lift while you take the younger child to their school?
• Are there childminders who drop of at either / both of the schools?
• Are there organised childcare settings that do drop offs at either school?
• Is your allocated school more than 2 miles away? in this case you may get free transport there.

You could also prepare an appeal for your preferred schol. It will be infant class size, and extremely hard to win, so your arguments need to be concrete, rational, not linked to childcare or transport (as those cannot be taken into account) and need to show that the council has made a mistake (e.g. put you in the wrong category for admissions)

You seem to be taking this very personally, the LA have not deliberately excluded your dd from a place at this school . I only put 1 school down as I can not be at 2 schools at the same time and the other schools in my catchment are of poorer education standards. Therein lies your problem, your gamble didn't pay off or you misunderstood the system . Had you named any other, even if less acceptable in your eyes , schools that were closer than the one allocated she may have got a place there and reduced your logistical problems. By some fluke (or perhaps you have moved since) your eldest got in but in this year there were more applicants higher placed in the criteria order than you for the places available . What are the criteria for the school you named , are siblings living out of catchment lower down than in catchment applicants with no sibling link perhaps? Logistical problems are not good grounds for appeal, many parents have children at different shcools you may need to ask a friend/relative to take your eldest to school or employ a CM . In the meantime go on the waiting lists of any others which are acceptable.

Unfortunately you should have looked more thoroughly into how the system and catchments work before limiting yourself to one school which you had little chance of getting into. They had no choice but to give you the catholic school as you didn't give more than one preference. If it's full it's full. As everyone has said get yourself onto waiting lists now or think about home educating. You seem to have an attitude you have been wronged but the system is the same for us all year after year.

This exact thing happened at our primary school with ds moved from nursery to reception. He's now year 7. Many of his friends in the school nursery applied to go into reception. having older children already in the school and getting youngest into nursery they were shocked for younger not to get into reception. 7 or 8 parents then had to decide whether to take older child out of the school because younger one didn't get in. Some of these were in the school catchment, although further than us that did get in. Some had the nightmare of getting both children to different schools while waiting for a space to come up at our school. Which I must say it did very quickly.

Also, you need to be very aware that if you refuse the place you have been offered, the LA is under no obligation to find you a place anywhere else, so you might well find your child with no school place at all. Contrary to popular belief, this does not have the effect of "forcing" the Council to "give in" and offer you a place at your preferred school.

Why did you only put one school down on your list? I'm afraid that that has possibly been a large factor bringing about the situation you now face.

You need to stop being cross about this and start thinking like a rational, logical adult.

1. Read all the bumpf from you LA about school admissions. (That frankly you should have already read.) Are you definitely not in catchment? Where does non catchment siblings come in priority? Why did you not get in? Chat to all the other mums at nursery. Who got in and under which rules. Whomdidn't? Does this seem to fit with the rules?

1. Check you are on the waiting list. Check where you are. Does it appear to be right? Occassionally errors are made. (Manor Street is thought to be the same as Manor Lane etc) Get your appeal in on time. (But be aware that saying "I won't stand for it" won't work!

1. Investigate all other schools nearby. Get your name down for all those you prefer to the one you have been given. Investigate if they have a place for your 6 yo if necessary. Investigate start and end times and if they have breakfast clubs / after school clubs that will make the run doable.

1. Investigate private and home ed. if you really won't accept anything but the current school then those are your options if it doesn't work out.

Yes as I did not no it was out the catchment area as my daughter got in 3 years ago and then my other daughter got in last year for nursery and I only put 1 school down as I can not be at 2 schools at the same time and the other schools in my catchment are of poorer education standards. I will not be sending my daughter to a catholic school that is strict on religion and run by nuns that is not my idea of education and having it pushed on to my child is wrong they have low standards so poor ofsted lowering my daughters education is unbelievable and I am not standing for this at all.

Are you actually reading anyone's advice on here?

You need to take the advice people have given or home educate then?

Are you originally from outside the UK? Different school systems can be very confusing if you're not used to them. The best thing to do will be to listen to the very good advice you've had here. Unfortunately due to misunderstanding the system you've been allocated a school you wouldn't have chosen, so you need to learn about appeals and waiting lists and decide whether you would rather home educate than send her to the allocated school.