Two days off school

[MegCleary]

For family reunion in another country, will I have to pay for dd 6 in year two when she has the Monday and Friday off to travel?

Depends on your LEA policy; ours doesn't fine for less than 4 days in a half term.

At our school yes you probably would.

You call it a "reunion" are we talking a Cilla Black type thing? Or are we talking a family get together/mini break?

If it's the former then you may get the headteach/governors to agree that the time off is due to an "exceptional circumstance". If it's the latter then it wouldn't be authorised and depending on the rules of the local authority you may well be fined.

Good luck but remember 2 days of school missed is also two days of learning lost.

At our school you would be fined.

I am surprised that people are saying they would be fined at their school. It does depend on the LA's policy. The school cannot do its own thing. And the policy of the vast majority of LAs is that you cannot be fined for this absence provided your daughter's attendance is otherwise good. Many schools will threaten a fine regardless of the LA's policy but that doesn't mean you will actually be fined.

If you are fined it will be £60 per parent. Of course, if the school approves the absence you won't be fined at all.

I said that prh because it's our local authority's policy to fine, and our school will fine. It makes no difference to the school if you go to Disneyland Paris or if you go to a family wedding in South Africa. There are occasions when they will not fine, because of death or terminal illness in the family. This of course means that some families will lie. But I am 99% sure that our school would fine in the circumstances stated above, which is the questions from the OP. She is not asking if we think she will be fined, but if we think our schools would impose a fine.

No, she is asking if she will be fined. "will I have to pay for dd 6 in year two". That does not appear to me to be in any way a question about what you think your school will do.

I would be interested in knowing which LA you are talking about. I haven't come across an LA that will fine that aggressively but I accept that I have not checked the policy of every LA.

Our school would fine you.
You need to check with your LEA and head teacher

Redbridge, East London. I know first hand of four school in this LA that will fine. Newbury Park, Redbridge Primary School, Aldersbrook Primary School and Snaresbrook Primary School. Some schools within the LA are not so aggressive with the fines, including Our Lady of Lourdes and Wanstead Church School who seem more reasonable in their approach. Don't know about the others.

We are in Norfolk, I have filled in the paperwork and it says exceptional circumstances maybe taken into consideration.

My fathers 10 siblings and families together for the first time in 30 years could be it hopefully.

Redbridge's website contains several documents about their policy. The only one that has any legal standing is the Code of Conduct since the regulations specifically require the LA to draw up a Code of Conduct and say that all penalty notices must comply with it.

Redbridge's Code of Conduct says that penalty notices must be issued by the LA, not by head teachers. All the head teacher should do is ask the LA to issue a penalty notice. Any penalty notice issued by a school is therefore automatically invalid and should be withdrawn by the LA.

The Code of Conduct is poorly written, unclear and appears to contradict itself in places. On the minimum absence required to attract a fine it specifies:

• 12 unauthorised sessions in one half term
• leave of absence taken without permission of the Headteacher

If they mean that any unauthorised absence can result in a fine (as per the second bullet) the first bullet is redundant. If I were affected I would argue strongly that the policy means that 12 half days unauthorised absence in a half term is the minimum requirement for a fine and that any penalty notice issued where this requirement has not been met is invalid. If it were to go to judicial review the judge would certainly try to find an interpretation of the Code that did not render either point redundant. The only such interpretation I can think of is that 12 unauthorised sessions absence trigger a fine and then any further unauthorised leave of absence triggers a further fine, but it is possible a judge may come up with some other interpretation that encompasses both points.

So overall I am happy to accept that Redbridge may be fining parents based on a single unauthorised absence but I would question their right to do so under their current Code of Conduct.

Well done phr. I live there and my kids go to one of the schools above, and I personally know many people who have been fined, including a one-week trip to Disneyland, three days skiing, and three days (for a family of three children) who went to a family wedding in South Africa. They do get fined, you can do a full on survey if you want I can give you post codes?

You are same LEA as me MegC, they won't authorise it but they won't fine you, either, I should think.

rocketjam - If you read my post you will see I stated clearly that I am happy to accept that Redbridge may be fining people based on a single unauthorised absence. I did not dispute that. You don't need to prove it to me. I did, however, point out that if there is genuinely no other absence there is, in my view, a strong argument that such fines are contrary to Redbridge's Code of Conduct which makes the penalty notices legally invalid. Unfortunately someone would need to be prepared to go to court to resolve this.

In Glos you have to have in excess of 10 sessions missed in a term to attract a fine.

Two days off school is two days' learning lost ... do you know exactly how much is learnt in two days?

Not an awful lot, in general.

You could easily make up for it with a bit of extra work at the weekend before and afterwards and anyway ... learning is not a matter of hours put in but understanding achieved. The two are not necessarily linked.

Life-long memories are probably far more valuable ...

If you really believe this I don't think you have been in a good quality school lately.

One of the issues these days is that people think time off school is ok. So a couple of days here and a week there doesn't make any difference but it really does.

I teach in a good quality school and have dc in another good quality school. I know how much time, effort, creativity, planning and resources go into each day at school ... and I still think that there are things in my life which are more important than attending for every single one of those days. And I know that schools, teachers and the whole education system most especially Michael Gove take themselves far far too seriously ...

That surpises me LaBelleDameSansPratience but you are entitled to hold that view.

The vast majority of teachers and schools I come in to contact with are very much of the school of thinking that they need every minute with the children/students to count and that time off does impact on learning.

Obviously as a teacher you have the knowledge and skills to bridge any gaps your own child my have but many parents don't have those skills and or choose not to bother even trying to fill gaps caused by absence.

I also hold the view that on occasion some time off is acceptable in some circumstances. And having seen some of the OP's subsequent posts I'd classify what she describes as exceptional circumstances.

Not that what I think matters!

I am in Norfolk we took ours out for five days, not authorised but we didn't get a fine.

The letter from our school said Norfolk lea policy is that it has to be more than five days and low attendance.

I think you will be ok for two days as a one off special family reunion.

Our time off was because dps leave is restricted by his employer. So we had no choice with when he could have time off. We spoke to both schools about it and whilst they wouldn't authorise it they understood and wished us a nice time etc.

Update, the head teacher has responded to my application, the leave will be classed as unauthorized, but as her attendance is 100% no further action will be taken. She thanked me for following the correct procedure and can understand why we wish to go.