Another Request for Appeal Advice

[NewToForums1]

Hi all,

Sorry for yet another post relating to appeals and school place rejection.

Like most we have been reused our first choice school place (Straight on waiting list) and have now lodged an appeal.
I was wondering if anybody can answer a few questions and give some advice on the best way to proceed during the appeal (Sorry for the slightly long post).

A few facts:
We live just outside the catchment area (150 meters).
I have 2 daughters 9 and 3 (4 In August).
The eldest is already at our first choice school.
We believe this is an infant class size of 30.

Briefly the reasons why I feel they need to be at the same school are:

• The eldest excels at Maths and English and is in top set for both, this is representative throughout the school.

The youngest is already showing an aptitude for Maths and English so I want her at this school as I feel she will excel at these subjects like her sister.

• We have a fantastic relationship with the school, my Wife has been asked to join the PTA.

She also attends the reading mornings each Friday to help with reading in class. The youngest has attended all the pre-school visits and has meet the reception teacher who has said she is bright and is looking forward to teaching her. Of course the youngest already has friends at the school she has made via visiting the school for various events and of course the school run. Along with those friends she has made at the Nursery who also might be attending the school.

• We feel that this would have a big detrimental effect on youngest if she lost that established bond with her friends and the school.

• The eldest has recently been diagnosed with a hearing problem resulting in hearing aids needed for both ears.

This has made her more withdrawn and very quiet which is affecting her socially, playtimes and dinners times etc. Again we feel having her sister with her will help her with her confidence again as the 2 sisters have an incredible bond.

• Finally the logistical nightmare of getting both girls to 2 schools in different direction on time etc.

We are not in any financial position to afford after school clubs etc. even the increase in petrol could become a problem. We simply cannot afford to move home otherwise we would have moved down a few streets to get tin the catchment area in the first place.

• So really to sum it all up the 2 sisters are only going to go from strength to strength being at the same school together.

Splitting them up will have such a genuine negative affect.

So, could I get some advice with all the above facts what is the best way to ‘pitch’ our appeal?
Would my Wife being on the PTA at the school influence any decision?

Also, the second choice school was only chosen as we had to list at least one alternative.
If we do not wish to accept this school (A place was offered) can we do anything about trying for another school if our appeal fails?

Many thanks for everyone’s time in reading this any the offering of any advice given.

No, your wife being on the PTA would not influence the decision.

Unfortunately the reasons you cite will not carry any weight at appeal . You can check that the admissions criteria have been applied correctly - finding a mistake is your best hope.

Otherwise - get on as many waiting lists as you can, and keep your fingers crossed. And don't reject the school you've been offered as then the Local authority have discharged their duty to you and won't be obliged to find you anything else.

I just saw your bit about your eldest having a hearing impairment (managed to miss that first time). It would have been best to cite this on your original application form, but it may just be worth mentioning at appeal. Out of all your points this is possibly the one that will carry most weight but I wouldn't be overly hopeful. Sorry {sad].

if your eldest is at the school, do they not give sibling priority. it is quitr unusual for a sibling to not get a place.

Oh, just seen you live out of catchment. Is that effective catchment or formally defined? if the latter, did you rank below catchment non-siblings?

Thanks all for the fast replies.
To answer a couple of questions:

1, Unsure if it is an effective catchment or formally defined (How would I find this out?).
2, The priority for admissions is:
First: Children who are looked after.
Second: Siblings at school in catchment.
Third: Single children in catchment.
Fourth: Siblings at school NOT in catchment.
Fifth: all other children based on distance to the school.

Do fourth down the list in pecking order :(

How do I get on waiting lists for a schools I did not even list on our application?
Can waiting lists be successful?

Thanks again everyone :)

Sorry should read:

Fifth: all other children based on distance to the school NOT in catchment.

The reason for that priority list is to stop people moving next door to the school, getting one child in then moving miles away and getting all their other kids in on the sibling rule - it seems unfair but is actually quite reasonable.

I agree with all that Tiggytape has said.

It sounds as if this is one of those schools that places out of catchment siblings below in catchment children in its admission priorities, even if it places them above other out if catchment children. If that is the case - and bearing in mind that this is an infant class size appeal - none of the things you mention are relevant.

Your children's academic ability is not relevant to any appeal, nor is your wife's volunteering at the school or her willingness to join the PTA. Nor, at an ICS appeal, can the panel give any weight to the needs of the sibling of the child on whose behalf the appeal is being made - the appeal is about your younger child, not her sibling.

Unfortunately for you, not getting a place for a younger sibling is a risk you run if you place your oldest child in an out of catchment school which distinguishes between in catchment and out of catchment siblings in its admissions priorities. Is there a place for your older child in the school at which your younger child (presumably) has a place?

If they admissions criteria mention catchment priority, then it must be formally defined. IT will be in the admissions criteria - something along the lines of - the defined catchment covers the area between the High Street in the North, and the Low Street in the South, that is between the East River and the A99999. So sounds like you are definitely "out of catchment" (though obviously double check with admissions criteria).

An effective catchment is where a situation exists where the school generally takes children within (say) a mile radius, but this could increase or reduce depending on the exact makeup of the year.

Just seen your most recent post, which confirms what I thought about the admissions criteria.

It seems clear from the wording of the criteria that there is a defined criteria and people will therefore be clearly inside or outside it. The LEA should be able to supply a map, but I don't see how that could help you.

Waiting lists do work for some people, because people decline their places for various reasons - got a place at another school via their waiting list, going to the private sector, moving house etc. But some schools have much more movement on the waiting list than others.

Sorry, defined catchment area.

Ok not looking good then :(

Answering PanelChair I am not sure about places for my eldest at the second choice school, how do I find this out.

Finally, should I accept the offer for the second school?
If by some miracle I get in it would it not a problem accepting 2 schools?

Sorry one last thought :)

If I accept the second school how long do I remain on the waiting list for the first choice?
Can I change schools so soon after the term has started?

And last but not least is it even harder trying to get this time next year?

Thanks all again.

You should definitely accept the school you have been offered. If you get in to your preferred school later the place at the second school will simply be offered to someone else. It happens all the time and isn't a problem.

If you want your eldest to go to this school ask the LA if there are any places available. They may tell you to ask the school.

You can remain on the waiting list for the first choice as long as there is a waiting list. There is no time limit. The waiting list will be in operation at least until Christmas.

You can change schools at any time - one day after the start of term if you want.

Not sure what you mean by your last question but if you are suggesting applying again next year you will almost certainly find that the LA insists your daughter goes straight into Y1, skipping Reception completely. You would therefore be applying for schools that are already full.

Again thanks all for your advice and a few new things to think over.

I guess the worst part of all of this for any parent is the moment my youngest asks "Why I can't I go to the same school as my sister and my friends?" :(

You know, that moment your heart is wrenched from your chest.

But thanks again everyone, helpful as people say you are.

Unfortunately for you, the answer to that emotive question is that you took a gamble when you accepted a place for your older child in an out of catchment school and that gamble hasn't paid off for your younger child. At least, not yet. Wait and see what happens with the waiting list.

As it stands we are 3rd out of 18 on the waiting list.

30 places, 48 applications, the 2 above us in the list are in catchment with a single child.