We have been given our 6th choice. There's something bothering me.

[Baggin123]

All,

I appreciate your help. My daughter has been given our 6th choice which we are unhappy with. Our first choice is a faith school. We have been members of the church for more than a year. It's this membership that permitted us to apply to the school. Not only that but our daughter also goes to the nursery of the school. She feels fully integrated into the church and nursery. She does not distinguish between the nursery and the school. My child has a real sense of belonging and her teacher states she is doing really well in school and is one of the more advanced, which shows she is thriving. My child will be upset if she does go to this school. She has made many friends. So I need to appeal. The school is oversubscribed and allows 30 children so I guess we're looking at infant class size appeal. I don't believe a mistake has been made by the admissions team although I will check for details. I also believe proving the decision will be perverse will be impossible. However, the school criteria states church members are those that attend church at least twice every month for period of a year prior to application. It also states church members must be accompanied with their child. I know for a fact that parents were using their grandparents to sign the book. I also know there were times parents signed the book while their children were not at church. Therefore I am wondering is this of any use to me? My view is that admissions team have followed a criteria set by the school and church which was not properly monitored by the church. This potentially means children have been places in the school when their parents did not fully respect the rules around what governs a true member of the church.

I don't know where we are on the waiting list yet but would appreciate some insight. Should I put forward a appeal? My view is focus on how well my child is doing there and how the school is well suited to continuing her development. I also want to highlight the holes in how the church sign off on which parents are true members.

Thanks

Firstly, commiserations. I know how it's like not to have your favourite school.

As you well know, you can't use nursery attendance as a means of pushing in to get priority in going to the same school.

Are you ready to fall out with the church by exposing their lax attendance keeping?

Good luck with your appeal. How about the other 4-5 schools?

I do not think it will do you much good. But don't panic just make sure you are on all the higher preference schools waiting lists. Do also look again at the school you have been allocated - it might not be that bad.

For secondary I would always appeal if you want to, for Infants if it is an infant class size appeal - then I probably wouldn't bother, unless I believed there had been a mistake. Sorry.

I really wouldn't bother tbh
The class size is important
Too big a class won't help your dd or the other children
Plus the school doesn't sound that great if it let's people fake going to church to get in
Your dd will thrive elsewhere
They are very adaptable at this age

If you demonstrate that "the wrong" children got the places, that potentially means a lot more children than your DD "should have" been the ones to get places. There may be a risk that you win the argument on that basis but then the panel has to pick between many children.

We have a similar situation near us but its not the lax records that causes the issue. Every year loads of siblings that have not been seen in church since first born child got in appear from no where. Hopeless as only a tiny number of non siblings get in

Thanks for your comments. Should the church not adhere to some guidelines in terms of criteria setting and monitoring? The other schools are all very good but my daughter is well integrated into our first choice. I guess the first thing to do is get an update on the waiting lists for all the schools. If anyone else has any thoughts please let me know.

Thanks

Rather than go in all guns blazing, can you talk to the school/church office and find out if you wait list how high up the list you'd be? It could well be you get a place as some will move off for private schools, also do they take more dcs at 7?

"Thanks for your comments. Should the church not adhere to some guidelines in terms of criteria setting and monitoring?"

one if the appeals experts will hopefully be along soon to clarify what are reasonable expectations in this area.

But what evidence is there that several months ago some parents were signing for children that weren't there? If it wasn't noticed by the vicar at the time, isn't it your word against theirs? Do you know yet that these people are amongst those who got in?

I would get on the waiting lists and find out what position you are but also prepare to not get in if so popular. Movement will depend on area etc. Did all her friends get in - you may not be the only one?

No not all of her friends got in which makes it a little easier. I shall wait to see what the next couple of weeks unearths.

Appreciate your comments

So you knew people were cheating the system but didn't do anything about it. Until now when you didn't get a place. That's only going to come across as a. Sour grapes or b. Untruthful.

I'm sorry you didn't get a olace but I would thunk waiting list is your best bet. Flagging this up now is just going to alienate you. I feel.

hiding to nowhere

you should have brought it up at the time if that concerned

Doesn't sound as if you've got grounds for an appeal unfortunately.

Your best bet is to see where you are on the waiting lists for your first choice school and the others higher up on your list.

I agree w Coconutty, one year's church attendance is very little and looks like you have been attending solely to get into the school. I already have one dc in our local faith school, but the admissions criteria rank church attendance higher than sibling status, so my dts have been going weekly since they were 11 wks old.

I agree that the argument that church attendance isn't being adequately monitored does not help you much. You could try arguing that there is too much scope for fraud in the system, and the panel may well agree with you on that, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they will override the infant class size limit of 30 and give you a place on the strength of it. I rather doubt it.

Arguments about bring at the nursery, staying with friends or being 'advanced' are completely irrelevant in an ICS appeal.

Tiggy - so if one place is down to two applicants, everything else being equal, one attended church for a year, one since birth, how is that decision made?

I suppose what I'm asking is once all stipulations are met, or not, and there's not enough places for all left on the list then what level of disretion is used? It must be necessary sometimes I would have thought? Or is there a prescribed way of deciding, like pulling names out of a hat?

(Not a loaded question btw, not in position to be thinking about school admissions, nor will be, and the whole thing passed me by at the time, didn't even realise there was such angst til MN! Just interested)

Twiggy or Panel, I meant. Or anyone for that matter!

The problem here for all the "experts" is that everything depends on what exactly does the admission criteria for the school say, which we do not know and also how was this administered. They should have followed a set pattern but ....
Could i suggest you send me a PM with the name of the school and the LA and I will look at what the admission criteria says and whether it seems from your posts to have been carried out.
I would however also check with the school and the LA exactly where you are on the waiting list and also under what admission criteria you were placed, just in case a mistake was made.

The first post gives a summary of the criterion about church attendance. Whatever the actual wording, the area of contention seems to be that people are not complying with the requirements and yet this is not being picked up.

Sorry. I am ignorant I these matters. What does signing the book mean? Wexattebtmd church every Sunday - for the last four years. Mohave never signed a book. Do wevactually NEED to?

different churches do it differently