Been offered brand new free school or last choice

[Lazymama2]

We're not sure what to do as have been offered a place at a brand new school which is with walking distance but has not been 'fitted out' yet (buildings are there). There is very little concrete info on term dates, start and finish times, curriculum and obviously no past performance on which to base a decision. Also no older kids to look up to. Other school is our last choice and has improved from satisfactory to good. DH does not want Dd to go to this school and would prefer private. I, on the other hand, quite like idea of a brand new school.

Thoughts/ideas anyone?

PS please dont turn this into a debate of state vs. private as I believe every parent does what is best for thier child/family circumstances and im not for/against one or the other.

A child my DC went to nursery with goes here. Child is happy and doing well, parents really happy with the school.
However, there was no way I wanted to send my child to a school with no proven track record let alone proper buildings to teach the kids in. The uniform is a tad OTT to my liking too.
Granted we were lucky and got first choice school and they didn't like what they were offered.
Amongst the waffle what I'm trying so say is different people prefer different things schools being one of them.
I don't like the whole Free School thing and think money would be better spent on the existing schools in the area whether it be improving standards therefore reputations and expanding capacity. If new schools are needed should be under LEA control.

A further update on Building progress. There has been an announcement in the Whitehall Park newsletter that demolition is "expected to begin" in "early February"

Two thoughts that jump to mind:-

1.This suggests, if the building to be ready by September 2015, which is still the date promised, that from start of demolition to completion of the new building is seven months. How realistic is this? Does anyone know?

2.This announcement of what amounts to yet another serious delay has been made, with the usual timing. Just after the closing date for applications for reception, so too late for parents to take into account when filling in their application.

Still no sign of the demolition starting.

So far as I can see.

So not "early February" then.

I do wnder what is holding it up.

This is the closest school to me as we don't fall within the catchment area of any of the schools in our borough, Haringey (we are 500 yards from Coleridge and the catchment area is something like 200), but DC won't be starting school til Sept 2018. I wonder if the building works will be finished by then? I don't like the idea of free schools but would be interested in their first Ofsted inspection report, whenever that may be.

@sansary

I think it would have been reasonable for you to have expected a posting in response from one of the people here who post in favour of Whitehall Park School - no praise too great it seems, and also claim to be well informed about the school, for example by being on the PTA.

Rather tham meerly being a neighbour like me. However in default of better information, your question as to whether building operations will be finished by September 2018 seems reasonable, and I can give you my best guess.Then one of the people with a connection to WPS can come on, no doubt and say I am wrong...

The first point is that the site is divided into two halves. The half with the old School building on it, and the other half with the portacabins for the current puils on it.

The plan is to demolish the old School building and replace it with a new building. Once the new building is ready the children will move into it and the housing association will start building where the portocabins used to be. So the works finish when the houses completed.

So your question amounts to asking is there time for this to happen, before September 2018.

Well the Housing association say their build will take 18 months, although there could be delays. But let us assume 18 moths. Then for the building to stop by start September 2018, it needs to start 18 months before. Which is February 2017. So the school building needs to be ready for the children to move in to January 2017. (and the portocabins then removed which is a fast job) Now the contractors for the new school, extra space claim they can do the new build, on a cleared and prepared site, in seven months. This is seen as very optimistic by building professionals but thats the claim. That would mean that they need to have the site cleared (the old building completely demolished) and ready by end of May 2016.

I do not know how long they expect the demolition to take, it was supposed to start early December 2015, then, in early January, then in early February. As I write it has not started. Early March then?

Conclusion. Just about possible, but the timing tight. Assuming they start the demolition soon.

On OfSted by the way, they used to inspect Free Schools after they had been open for two years. However this has now been lengthened to three years.

The argument for this was it gave OfSted a better basis on which to judge.

Some cynics suggested that this was because too many Free Schools were not getting very good results, when they were inspected after only two years.

On that basis you might well see an OfSted report by September 2018

I thought the building is some kind of incredible flat pack type of thing so it is easy and quick to construct.

mrsMarigold,

I think it is for someone with connections to Whitehall Park School to comment on the proposed method for building the new school building. My understanding is that the parents have had a briefing on it. The method is claimed to be both fast and cheap.

In my posting about the building timetable on the site which included the building work to be carried out building houses, by a housing association, I used what I understand to be the timescale that is claimed by WPS.

hence my conclusion that provided the site is cleared (demolition completed) by the end of next May 2016 then building on the site could finish before September 2018.

As of yesterday demolition has started. I walked past the school entrance yesterday, at the end of the school day and saw little children coming out of the school through clouds of dust.

How this can be safe for either the children or the staff baffles me. But it is for the parents and the staff to get assurances on safety. I noted that the workmen were wearing dust masks.

schoolsweek.co.uk/harperbury-free-school-cancelled-despite-1-9m-spend/?utm_content=buffer730f1&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer at least it's not this free school!

As a parent I have been hanging around the school gates at Whitehall park over the course of the last few weeks too, though this has primarily been to pick up my child and I have yet to witness any clouds of dust coming from the site. As always nlondondads concern for the school and pupils is much appreciated.

WhitehallParkdad.

I would be surprised if what I saw was an isolated incident. dust, children, workmen in dust masks. You really do need to seek formal assurances in the interests of your children.

This is why.

My concern about the exposure of the children at Whitehall Park School to demolition dust is based on advice to the Governors of Ashmount School when they occupied the old building and were considering the various options as to how to cope with the fact that the building was wearing out and needed to be replaced. One option was to do a phased demolition and rebuild. The work would have been complicated and slow because they were advised that, due to the asbestos in the old building, which of course any demolition would disturb, demolition could NOT take place while children were on site because the risks of exposing them to asbestos dust were unacceptable. So the only time it could be done was during the summer break.

(The option they took in the end was of course to move to a new building on a new site)

Here is why it matters:

A quote from a Health and Safety executive publication aimed at workers who are at risk of exposure. Like the workers on the Whitehall Park School site who are careful to wear dust masks.

"Breathing in air containing asbestos fibres can lead to asbestos-related diseases, mainly cancers of the lungs and chest lining. Asbestos is only a risk to health if asbestos fibres are released into the air and breathed in. Past exposure to asbestos currently kills around 4500 people a year in Great Britain. Workers who carry out building maintenance and repair are particularly at risk.

There is usually a long delay between first exposure to asbestos and the onset of disease. This can vary from 15 to 60 years. Only by preventing or minimising these exposures now can asbestos-related disease eventually be reduced"

The HSE also point out that the risk is particularly high with workers under the age of 30.

Exposure causes a number of lung diseases the worst of which is a cancer called mesothelioma.

Here is the link to information from Cancer Research UK

www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/type/mesothelioma/about/what-mesothelioma-is

And here is a further link to an article in which the point is made that there is no safe level of exposure.

scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2014/01/20/the-link-between-working-with-asbestos-and-mesothelioma-case-closed/?view=rss

Parents and all employees of Whitehall Park School should be seeking formal, written, assurances regarding the processes being used to manage this demolition. This should include a formal statement of who would be liable were compensation claims to become an issue in the future. And an explanation of how this work could be done safely with children on site.

@Nlondondad
Islington council planning department and the demolition experts have it all in hand. See links below.

I'm surprised that you'd think Islington council would not ensure the health and safety of our children. I, for one, have no concerns for my son.

planning.islington.gov.uk/Northgate/PlanningExplorer/Generic/StdDetails.aspx?PT=Planning%20Applications%20On-Line&TYPE=PL/PlanningPK.xml&PARAM0=437521&XSLT=/Northgate/PlanningExplorer/SiteFiles/Skins/Islington/xslt/PL/PLDetails.xslt&FT=Planning%20Application%20Details&PUBLIC=Y&XMLSIDE=/Northgate/PlanningExplorer/SiteFiles/Skins/Islington/Menus/PL.xml&DAURI=PLANNING

planning.islington.gov.uk/NorthgatePublicDocs/00377007.pdf

@Eireannach

But have you had the assurances that I mentioned as those I would have thought it was reasonable to seek?

It also concerns me that you appear not to understand the role of Islington planning. They just granted planning permission, they do not supervise the works.

It also concerns me that you provide a link to a long and complex document which simply does not reassure.

For a start it is very badly proof read and has at least one very strange false statement. The site is NOT beside an "ATC training facility" !!!! (its a block of flats Fortior Court - with people living in it.)

Setting that aside it sets out in great detail what must be done to protect workmen from dust including emergency procedures in case of accidental contamination, and a requirement they wear special face masks at all time.

But it makes no reference to precautions to be taken by the staff, or children who share the site!

Have arrangements been made to check the school premises and the school playground for contamination at regular intervals?

I live in the Whitehall Park Area and I have just seen a rather curious, perhaps concerning, post on the local Resident's association website

Its here:

www.whpara.org.uk/

and on this page page there is an item about the people behind Whitehall Park School - Bellevue and what would appear to be some odd connections with the stuff that has come out regarding tax evasion because of the Panama Papers. There is a link there to a Sunday Times story about this. Seems a bit murky to me. Can anyone throw any light?

If anyone is worried about asbestos all you have to do is phone the HSE and log a complaint / concern. Someone will go out and check if it's not already been done ( more usual).

I have done some more digging on Bellevue and the dodgy funds stories.

I have found a blog posting on

wembleymatters.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/from-panama-to-kilburn-time-for-some.html

Which concludes:-

" It appears that the DfE is funding a free school with taxpapers' money which has some slightly worrying connections. We know according to some reports that eventually free schools and academies may be allowed to become profit making but it would be worth the authorities checking where the money is going at present.

The staff, and parents of Kilburn Grange may have little idea of the ins and outs of the Trust and the school itself may do a wonderful job but perhaps they should be asking some searching questions about the Trust and its partners."

This would apply to Whitehall Park School as well, as Kilburn Grange and Whitehall Park are just two of the seven schools being run by the Bellevue trust.

Some further info. The Free Schools run by Bellevue Place are Rutherford House School, Braywick Court School, Whitehall Park Primary School, Kilburn Grange School, Halley House School, Deer Park School, and Watling Park School.

And the story has now appeared on Schools Week.

schoolsweek.co.uk/bellevue-place-education-trust-who-are-they/#comment-91956

Interestingly given the arguments on this thread as to whether Whitehall Park was needed, and how many vacant places it has, its interesting to see that the CEO of Bellevue Place appears to concede that Whitehall Park was set up in an area without a shortage of places...

At least at the time it was set up anyway.

and now the NUT have called for an enquiry into Bellevue Place....

www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/comment/31604#comment-31604

I was struck by this bit...

""The NUT is today demanding an inquiry into how a business running private schools linked to an offshore company exposed in the Panama Papers has been allowed to play an influential role in a multi-academy trust running seven state-funded free schools in London and the south east....

.....The Secretary of State for Education has serious questions to answer as to why the DfE and the Education Funding Agency have allowed a company which is alleged to be at the centre of serious dubious financial practices to be so centrally involved in running state funded schools..."

Just catching up with this. Hope Bellvue set the record straight this looks really worrying.

And a tweet by the NUT

"Letter to Govt calling for inquiry into links between free school provider and company exposed in Panama papers"

pic.twitter.com/eDvk0XSozW

The local residents association website URL for the story in the Sunday Times and the NUT call for an enquiry has changed it is now:

www.whpara.org.uk/newsarchive.html

Interesting how there have been no posts from Whitehall Park connected people since the posts about asbestos and funny money.

Why no rebuttal?

Emails to the school get no reply.

There are a number of messages on this thread posted by people, who say (and why should I doubt them?) that they are parents at Whitehall Park School and appear to be well informed about the school. I would have expected a response from one of those on these issues.

The asbestos issue seems to me such a serious one that I am really surprised that no one has responded on that.