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Been offered brand new free school or last choice

455 replies

Lazymama2 · 16/04/2014 16:35

We're not sure what to do as have been offered a place at a brand new school which is with walking distance but has not been 'fitted out' yet (buildings are there). There is very little concrete info on term dates, start and finish times, curriculum and obviously no past performance on which to base a decision. Also no older kids to look up to. Other school is our last choice and has improved from satisfactory to good. DH does not want Dd to go to this school and would prefer private. I, on the other hand, quite like idea of a brand new school.

Thoughts/ideas anyone?

PS please dont turn this into a debate of state vs. private as I believe every parent does what is best for thier child/family circumstances and im not for/against one or the other.

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Rafaz · 13/12/2014 16:46

Well done to everyone that organised and joined us yesterday at our first PTCA event at Whitehall School Park. It was amazing to be part of the team of teachers, parents and community members bringing us together to celebrate our school and our children while raising funds and awareness for the school. Seeing their small faces proudly sing to the crowd has encouraged me to post and give some insight from a personal perspective.

Prospect parents my advice as a current parent who had endless nights deciding on whether to go with a school I knew nothing about and had no building or whether to choose an established school, is to go and visit the school. I don't think it is for everyone. It is a very focused, driven school where students are challenged and good behaviour is part of everything.
In addition we are in porta cabins. For me and my child this is not an issue at all, nor any of the others I know mind or even notice this. I would not be upset if they didn't have a building for another year.... but you need to decide if you can live with this, just in case there is a delay with the new site.

This is what I know and what we have experienced so far:
My child loves being in a small school. He doesn't miss not having older peers because he knows no differently and I'm not sure he would even want older kids given a choice.
He loves the individual attention he gets. The classes are subdivided for phonics and he is being challenged daily. His teacher gives him extra work and tasks to ensure that he is engaged.
He loves going to breakfast club where he is in a small group and gets extra playtime with his friends.
He loves football and can't wait to start Yukilale in the after school clubs.
He has made good friends and loves being able to walk or cycle to school.
He loves the art and drama that is incorporated into daily classes.
He loves the school meals.I'm less happy about this.

What I love:
His Learning Journal is unbelievable. Every page is filled with different activities that they do,all outlines with the learning element involved.
Being close to school.
The hard working and dedicated staff who are creative and passionate.
The lovely parents.
The art from junk materials.
Being greeted at the gate by the Head teacher or another member of staff daily.
The opportunities to get involved as a parent in the class setting.
The openness to other religions and sensitivity around this.
The huge opportunities given to these kids.... they have been on an outing to the science museum, been to a church for Harvest Festival, had a winterwonderand land event yesterday, and on Weds is their Nativity play. They have recorded a CD of winter songs by a professional team of parents...all of this in 2 months. How does this compare to other reception classes?

We are all, except one, new parents with our eldest or only child at WHP, so we can't compare our experiences to other schools but naming these different activities that have been done in 2 months makes me a proud parent but also astonished at how much the school has done for the kids while still doing everything else involved in running a school.
I'm happy to answer any questions.

nlondondad · 13/12/2014 19:46

Congratulations Rafaz on your first ever post on Mumsnet..... Almost as if you had joined Mumsnet for the sole purpose of making this post... but then perhaps you will prove me wrong by being active on Mumsnet in other threads beside those that mention Whitehall Park School. Or perhaps you will be like some others who only ever post to say how marvellous Whitehall Park School is.

Yet consider: In your comprehensive list, you list as special features of Whitehall Park School things which are actually commonplace in schools in Islington and Haringey.

Your implication by the way that the school is "not for everyone" as it "encourages good behaviour" : Surely you do not mean to suggest that the other schools in the area do NOT encourage good behaviour?

Juniorjones · 14/12/2014 11:16

@nlondondad, there was a request a few posts ago for current parents of children at whitehall park to post their thoughts about the school which @Rafaz kindly has done. He/she is not saying any of the above is unique to WPS just what his/her experience of the school is. Not quite sure why the fact it is a first post is an issue, lots of people watch threads without necessarily posting and lots of people only post about a single subject which they are interested in. I know it pains you to hear something positive said about the school but the reality is that the children who are there are very happy.

highgatedad · 15/12/2014 21:40

@rafaz makes an important point about behavior. Whitehall Park School uses the Stay on Green behaviour policy, including Bronze, Silver and Gold awards for exceptionally good behaviour and achievement. You can read more about it here: www.whitehallparkschool.co.uk/stay-on-green/ . I think that the policy works well, and many schools use it, but it may not be for everybody, and prospective parents should take the time to understand both the behaviour policy and the focus on academic achievement, as they are core parts of the school's ethos.

Foxmonaught · 15/12/2014 22:52

...Whitehall Park School Visit

As promised, but unfortunately delayed by tedious back-to-back winter illness…

We visited the school for one of the open days last Friday week, where we got a chance to meet the teachers, teaching assistants and see the children at work/play. The fact of it is - it all looks pretty good and by that I mean it all looks pretty normal, it was a situation that we had seen many times before, and in line with other schools in the area. Except here, rather than being whisked through seven different year groups we had only the one reception year to focus on, so we had time to take a good look at all the Gruffalo & Snowman related work the children were currently doing (the idea here being they develop literacy, numeracy and communication skills by exploring the themes/content found in the books). It all appears to be in line with the National Curriculum Early Years Foundation Stage (EYFS) and similar to learning activities we have seen in the other primaries we have been to visit.

The teachers with whom I spoke were confident and articulate and they really seemed to be relishing the opportunity they had been given. I do not make this last point, as some throwaway comment; I was really struck by how genuinely enthusiastic the teachers were, it left me with a really good sense of the standards one could expect from WPS. Similarly, Laura, the head teacher, seems to possess the necessary verve and gumption to steer this new school along the right path. It was the same reassuring feeling I got from the heads of the other schools we liked, and overall we were impressed and convinced of her ability to head WPS.

Having visited a fair few primary schools over the last 18 months or so I can say the standards in all of them were pretty decent. I think as parents we will all inevitably tend to base our decisions on details that are additional to the core education, some are perhaps trivial, some less so. I think the anxiety that some parents feel (myself included) about their child not 'thriving' in one school over another is perhaps a burden we bring upon ourselves, but merely identifying this anxiety does little to explain it away. We remain anxious about making the 'right' decision; the 'just so' school though, is perhaps only to be found at the end of the rainbow.

So with that in mind, I think Whitehall Park School deserves our serious consideration. Whilst allowing for the fact that we have to somehow 'strategise' our choices on the schools application form I would consider it in our top three. The other two schools that we like & 'feel good' about, are still a fair distance away, we are well outside of their catchment area, but perhaps we might get an offer during the spring/summer 'churn'. We have seen several other decent schools besides these but the reality is we won't have the slightest chance of getting in.

In the end WPS will be our local school, and there is a lot to be said for that, not least because it is the one that we can actually walk to, but there are many other obvious advantages a local school can offer. Like I said, I think it deserves serious consideration & I hope this post will actually be of some help to any parents making these choices at the moment.

Rafaz1 · 16/12/2014 11:41

I have signed up again as Rafaz1 because I cant seem to log in with Rafaz.

Following on from Foxmonnought- the children follow a book for two weeks, a relatively easy book, so that it can be used in multiple capacities. The children's maths, art, writing, spelling etc will be based on the book. As Laura explained to us, this creates continuation and makes a lot of sense to children rather than jumping from one subject to the next, they move from one book cycle to another book cycle.

If any prospect parents would like to meet up and ask questions I am happy to do this at any point, please don't be shy. I know what a difficult decision this is and that it may not be suitable to ask every question on this forum. We could get a couple of prospect parents together if there is the take up.

PythagorousPlannedIt · 18/12/2014 15:08

I thought there might be some interest in this, and unlike my previous posting of information about this group its not out of date!

A report from the Ashmount Site Action group

NEWS FROM THE ROYAL COURTS OF JUSTICE

COURT 19
Before JOHN HOWELL QC
(Sitting as a Deputy High Court Judge)
Wednesday 17 December, 2014

ASAG today had its day in Court - but it is with great sadness that we now write to say that ASAG were denied the Judicial Review that was believed would have seen the Secretary of State and London Borough of Islington give proper credence to the Government’s own playground regulations and not give the playground site over to housing development.

The Secretary of State and London Borough of Islington have asked for, and been awarded, £10,000 towards their costs - a large sum that surely prevents any thought of appeal.

The judgment makes a number of points, but the main thrust of the it says that the regulations have been not breached. This is galling because of course the former school enjoyed a decent playground, but the new one will have far less. Whatever the spirit of the regulations migt be, they do not protect play space. The judgment makes clear that the absence of proper guarantees in legislation or regulation leaves the Secretary of State and London Borough of Islington free to eliminate, if needed, all and any play space.

The absurdity of this judgment is plain - but the regulations are proven to be insufficient to safeguard the playground.

Children in the future will have to make do with what is left after the developers have had their land.

Under the circumstances, ASAG is not asking for any further donations, and will now review the funds it has already gathered to see if they match current awards made by the Court. However, ASAG does not expect to have to fund raise any further, pending a further public meeting and any new resolutions that any be made by the community.

ASAG

Foxmonaught · 21/12/2014 23:01

Whatever the specific considerations that led John Howell QC to reject the application for Judicial Review, one of ASAG's central arguments was the claim that a split site would result in a diminished & restricted use of playground space, with all the negative implications that that would entail. I have always considered this a problematic and questionable claim (see upthread) & have come across some relevant information on WPS's own website quoted below, that appears to dissolve such a claim.

[Whitehall Park School] "are advised by the EFA that the configuration of the site when occupied by the former Ashmount Primary School contained 3,222sqm of deemed playing field land for a 3FE primary school. The current proposals for the newly designed 2FE primary school will provide a total of 3,987sqm of playing field [The definition of playing fields are contained in the Department for Education Building Bulletin 99 and 103 and includes both hard and soft playing surfaces and does not just refer to grass playing areas.]
This increase of 765sqm occurs despite the reduction in the size of the site and is achieved by a more efficient building design."

it goes on to say…

"On the proposed site configurations, we will seek to provide a healthy curriculum that delivers two hours of physical education per student each week, along with after school activities that promote sports."

The only issue I would take with the above statement is that as I understand it, Ashmount Primary was not originally built as a 3FE (three form entry) but a 2FE, it was expanded to 3FE later to meet the increased demand for primary school places in the area, (imagine that). But even with taking that amendment into consideration, if the figures in sqm. quoted above are reasonably accurate this is still a 'like for like' increase in actual play space. So despite the impassioned rhetoric given by ASAG the loss, reduction or restriction of play space seems unfounded in any conceivable or practical terms, and through better design it seems the new school building may have more play space even with a site that has an overall smaller footprint.

nlondondad · 09/01/2015 16:22

@Fox

I have now had a chance to follow up the detailed note of the judgement that ASAG have posted on their web site.

What is interesting about it, I think is a point which applies to Free Schools in general. The judge found that the rules issued by the DfE regarding the amount of playground space a schools should have have been changed. Basically there is now NO requirement for a Free School to have a playground at all. There are just expected to do the best they can with whatever site they can find. This is a very important change as it means that whereas in the past state supported schools had to have a playground of a certain, minimum size, now there is no such rule for a new, Free School. So parents thinking of sending their child to any Free School should add:

"what size playground do you have, what are the play facilities?"

to their other questions.

Whitehall Park School appear to answer this question on their web site (from which you have quoted) when they say they have a big enough playground. ASAG continue to disagree, and quote their own figures. Unfortunately the Judge, by finding that there was NO minimum size now required, did not rule as between ASAG and WPS, so in fact we do not have a judicial ruling on who was right about the size of the playground, as basically the Judge thought the size of the playground irrelevant. But parents might not agree that the size did not matter!

nlondondad · 12/01/2015 10:05

Parents currently evaluating the claims being made by Whitehall Park School might be interested in this link, which it is fair to say, is hostile to WPS.

www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2014/12/it-aint-so-the-whitehall-park-school-story-goes-on/

TheNewBrown · 12/01/2015 14:10

@nlondondad

You freely admit on Mumsnet that you are "a governor at Ashmount Primary School, and a member of the Islington Schools Forum". It only takes a few seconds of Googling to find lists of members of the Islington Schools Forum and members of the Governing Body of Ashmount school. Interestingly there is only one name that appears in both lists and it coincidentally happens to be the same name as the author of that “hostile” attack on Whitehall Park School.

Please, if you are going to write lengthy blog posts attacking WPS and then posting links to them on Mumsnet, at least have the decency to admit it is you doing this rather than pretending it is someone else.

nlondondad · 12/01/2015 15:45

I do not "pretend" anything. I find it sad that you are unable to grasp that a personal attack is not an argument.

This is not about me.

Or about you TheNewBrown - whoever you are.

It is about providing information that parents might find useful when completing applications. I can only hope that you are not as unpleasant in person as you seem driven to be, online. But of course online you have the protection of anonymity.

Juniorjones · 12/01/2015 16:37

if your objective @nlondondad was to provide information for prospective parents then the source of that information (opinion) is highly relevant. If the promoter of the information and the author of the information are one and the same, then in the interests of transparency is it not better that, that is made clear?

nlondondad · 12/01/2015 16:52

Oh dear.

As night follows day, a post from ThenewBrown is follwed by a post from JuniorJones who also sheltering behind his own anonymity demands "transparency"

What would be rather more interesting would be any indication that the information I put a link to was in any way false.

PythagorousPlannedIt · 12/01/2015 17:48

I must admit that the reappearance of the "who is nlondondad" argument doesnt come across as very constructive. Anyway, to move on I have just had a copy of the Whitehall Park School Newsletter which announces that the new building will not now be ready for September 2015. The new date given is January 2015.

".. a further delay for the submission of our planning application with the revised drawings being considered by a further meeting of the Islington Design Review Panel in February. This now makes it
impossible for the planning application to be submitted prior to the General
Election in May 2015 and as a consequence it is now no longer possible that
the school can move into the new building in September 2015. We are
therefore now planning for the establishment of two further temporary
buildings to provide the school with two year 1 classrooms. These are
expected to remain on site for a term with the current plans to move into
our new building in January 2016."

As you seem to know a bit about building Foxmonought do you have any views as to whether this new timetable is achievable?

nlondondad · 12/01/2015 19:06

Actually this is a very serious development Pythag.

It means that the decision to spend the money on a new building for a Free School in an area where:-

1.There is no shortage of school places

  1. All the neighbouring schools are either "good" or "outstanding"

Will now be taken by whoever is Secretary of State after the next election.

A Minister who will be facing a funding squeeze, a demand for money for creating school places where there is a shortage, and who will be asked to sign a multi million pound contract for a new building.

When the alternative is not to sign a contract, tell Islington to find places for any children offered for reception 2015, which they can easily do and leave the current children to be taught in portocabins for the next six years if need be. And spend the millions on creating school places elsewhere.

Papermover · 12/01/2015 20:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

whitehallparkdad · 13/01/2015 09:25

Nlondondad
and as night follows day the usual negative posting from your good self!!!

It is interesting to hear (once again) that there is not a shortage of local school places. As far as I was aware non of the local schools have 40 spare places to fit the 40 plus children who as far as I can see are enjoying being at WP school.

Papermover
I would anticipate that there would be some contingency planned for spaces if the building is not in a position to be moved into (there is plenty of space). I have been to a couple of the consultations on this and they are proposing a modular build in any case.

Re admissions: I think it is part of the overall admissions run by Islington now.

Foxmonaught · 13/01/2015 19:49

@P'PlannedIt

Yes, I've just read the newsletter too. This would definitely count as evidence to the contrary for a September 2015 completion, but with January 2016 being giving instead, just one term on though.

What it also says however is that the delay seems to be over suggestions made at the pre-planning stage by the Islington Council themselves, through their 'design review panel' in what looks like an effort to improve the new building in terms of better orientation and use of space, it sound quite sensible to me & from the same newsletter you quote from, WPS tells us:

" [The] new design provides, in our opinion, a more efficient and effective building…increasing still further the size of the playground and maximises the rooftop playground"

It's reassuring, despite the resulting delay, to see that all efforts are being made to provide as much play space as possible for the children.

To answer your specific question, as to whether this is still achievable. The estimated timetable for the actual building work itself, does not appear to have changed so very much as the timing itself, with everything having being shunted approximately one school term down the line. A January completion, as opposed to a September one, very similar in fact to the situation mentioned upthread with Rutherford House School in Balham.

But I do not think it would be very wise to say too much in the way of opinion until we see the new drawings, as one cannot really arrive at accurate or even credible decisions based on unknown information. I am however quite eager to see these new drawings. I think a school that looks into a 'green site' would be much more appealing than one looking onto a road.

@nl'dad

I'm not sure I agree with your rather bleak assessment of the post election landscape, and in the absence of knowing the outcome of future events I will try to contain my thoughts to the present. The BBC news today alerted us to the imminent crisis concerning the shortage of school places, with these shortages being "most acute" in urban centres, places like, for instance - London.

In light of this, do you really think whoever forms the next government, is going to effectively close down an existing school, that to all extent and purpose seems to be performing as it should, by denying it funding?

This scenario you paint does seem to be rather opportunistic, and while it may suit your cause in opposing the school you cannot possibly consider it a proper argument? Its basis seems to be little more than pure speculation.

As I understand it a 7 year funding agreement has already been approved and signed by the DfE for a two form entry primary school, this school has now been established and will provide an eventual full capacity for 216 pupils. The government is committed to fulfilling this agreement, including the provision of a new school building.

Labour, should they gain an overall majority, have already confirmed their continuing support for all free schools that are currently established, as well as those 'in the pipeline', this would include, as I believe, a commitment to fund any proposed building programmes that were necessary for these schools. Whitehall Park School falls comfortably into the above category; it is an established school with proposed building requirements.

So whatever the outcome of the election both of the two main parties, at least one of which will almost certainly be involved in the next government, look set to honouring the commitments already made to Whitehall Park School, amongst others.

Relatedly there is politics at the local level to consider, as it seems unlikely that Islington Council, who are committed to not developing 'their half' of the site until a new school building is provided, will be happy to wait six more years before they can begin to free up the site to build much needed social housing for families who, Islington tells us, are desperate for accommodation in the here and now.

nlondondad · 16/01/2015 18:30

@Fox

(Oh dear. I am now "opportunistic" as well as everything else...)

You raise a number of good points.

Howver I would start by pointing out the questionable behaviour of Bellevue Place in assuring prospective parents last week that their children would be in a new building (and no mention of any kind of 'pahsed" or "modular" build) next September when they must have know by then this was not the case.

(In fact their web site continues to assure people - I have just checked this moment - that the new building will be complete for September 2015)

It is now too late for parents to change their application, an application they will have made on good faith, but based on an excercise in miss selling by Bellevue Place Ltd.

My understanding is this misinformation was relayed by Whitehall Park School staff acting under instruction, WHO WERE THEMSELVES MISINFORMED, and so they were acting in good faith, but themselves deceived.

Of course while this point matters as a matter of principle and it continues the Bellevue Place record of being less than straightforward, the practical question of what the actual dealy will be also matters and I will post about that next.

Eireannach · 16/01/2015 23:23

@nlondondad
I'm confused by what you are saying. Please clarify.

Eireannach · 16/01/2015 23:27

How do you know that WPS staff are misinformed?

nlondondad · 18/01/2015 18:34

@Eire

Can you specify exactly which bit, or bits (for that matter) you find confusing, then I will do my best to clarify....

(Possibly helped by others....)

Eireannach · 19/01/2015 14:10

@nlondondad

Yes, youre right. My posts were not very clear, but they were written is sheer exasperation.

I would like to see your evidence for the questionable behaviour, deception and lack of transparency in which Bellevue is supposedly involved. As a parent of a WPS reception class pupil, I have never been deceived by them. In fact, it was the opposite. They have always been transparent to me.

For example:

-Before the old Ashmount site was finalised as the location for WPS, they would never confirm that the school would be on that site, no matter how much I probed them for that information. When that was finalised, parents were informed quickly.

-They promised me that the school would open in September 2014 with two reception classes. To my delight, this was delivered on time.

-They promised an excellent leadership team, teaching and support staff. Again, they delivered this.

I know how lucky we are to have my son taught by some of the most effective, well qualified teachers and support staff in a very warm and caring environment. I am constantly in awe of the hours they dedicate to the children, as well as helping parents to support their childrens learning. I am extremely happy with the progress hes has made, and that is saying a lot from someone who comes from a culture obsessed with education. Above all, he is extremely happy in the school. He settled in extremely quickly, skips happily in the gate every morning and I have to literally drag him out every evening (I'm not the only parent who has to do this).

Neither I nor the many other WPS reception parents Ive spoken to are in anyway phased by our children spending another term in a portacabin. I live in the real world, where timelines often do slip. In the case of this three month delay, I think it is appropriate that time is taken to perfect the school plans to provide the best possible building for our, and future, WPS children. If I remember correctly, Ashmount School was to move to its new building in October 2012, but didnt move till January 2013. See, its not uncommon to deviate from target timelines.

To parents who have applied to WPS for this September, please dont let nlondondads posts upset you they way I allowed them to upset me last year. None of the doomsday scenarios that he predicted for the school came true. Im sure once the school is built, hell be predicting a localised earthquake on the junction of Ashmount Road and Hornsey Lane.

nlondondad · 19/01/2015 17:37

@eireannach.

In the first instance parents applying to the school for this autumn had the right to be properly informed that the new building was not going to be ready in September 2015. Bellevue Place Trust will have known this for some time. By not disclosing this until it was too late for parents to change their applications or preferences, they are party to a deception. This is merely the latest in one of a number of such deceptions documented on the Local School network here:-

www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2015/01/whitehall-park-school-a-lack-of-candour-a-delay-and-a-general-election/

As a matter of a day before the annoucement (not including a weekend) WPS staff were still assuring applicant parents that the building WOULD be ready as announced there are only two possibilities:-

  1. They were not being truthful

OR

  1. The were acting in good faith but had been misinformed.

It has to be one or the other. Which explanation do you favour?