Appeals advice thread

[SauceForTheGander]

TiggyTape suggested a thread for those of us needing advice on the appeals system.

Sorry to those of you disappointed like we are. None of our first 3 choices ...

First challenge is to get DH to remember the password he set on our account.

DH is all for getting a solicitor - is that worth it?

thanks Tiggytape, that's really helpful

Another one who didn't get any of our 3 choices.

Have NCd as our location is quite specific. We live at the seawards end of a peninsula, yet our school allocations are all still done on distance. Our first choice is tiny but in the middle of the peninsula. So we are atuck in a sort of dead zone at the far end, whereby we are too far from any school to get in on distance! We were shocked not to get our second catchment school either.

Any grounds for appeal do you think? Or just suck it up/ go on waiting lists?

In your situation, MrsGrumpyPants, I might try to appeal on the argument that being on the tip of the peninsula effectively leaves you with no realistic chance of getting a place in a local school and that this is therefore unreasonable (in the legal sense of cannot justifiably be defended, not just that you don't like it).

If this is an infant class size appeal - ie the PAN is 15, 30 or a multiple thereof - you are only likely to win if you can find some error or fatal flaw in the admission arrangements so, as I said, although it is perhaps a long shot you could argue that leaving you with no local option for schools is unreasonable. But you say the school is tiny. What is its PAN? If it's not 15 or 30 this wouldn't be an infant class size appeal and then you could bring in other arguments about why your child would be disadvantaged if not admitted to the school.

Hmm. For once I disagree with Tiggytape.

It is certainly true that many families find themselves in school 'dead zones'. But I think the difference that MrsGrumpyPants might exploit is that, unlike people in urban areas who may be surrounded by schools in all directions, in most directions she is surrounded by sea and can only travel in one direction to get to schools (assuming I have understood correctly). It's by no means an open and shut case, but it is at least arguable that the LEA should have taken the needs of families living on the peninsula into account when drawing up its admission arrangements - it could have created a priority admissions zone, for example - and that its failure to do so is unreasonable. I'd be inclined to take it to an appeal panel and let them decide.

Please help if you can. We didn't get any of our 5 choices and have been allocated a place 4 miles away which, having to use public transport, will take an hour each way and will just not fit with work at all. All the schools on my list were within 1 to 3 streets away but we missed out on them by approx. 0.02 to 0.05 miles of the furthest distance offered. To say I'm worried and anxious is an understatement but my question if anyone can help is... We were apparently allocated a place at the nearest school with a place (4 miles away) but the statistics on the LA website tonight show that they had given two allocations to a faith school to families who hadn't listed it (I didn't put this school on the list simply because I thought the criteria would be a bit more stringent but it is only 0.22 miles distance from me). Surely this would have been the nearest school to me with a spare place? Can I question the LA on whether the 2 families they have allocated to the faith school live closer to it than me?
Sorry if this doesn't make sense - bit strung out at the mo.

I think what you need to query is the way in which the vacant places are allocated. Presumably, the other two children were ahead of yours in the queue, the faith school was at the time the nearest school to them with vacant places and so they were allocated there. By the time they got to your child, the nearest school with a place was the one 4 miles away. That isn't necessarily wrong or unreasonable; as far as I can see, it depends on how they organise the 'queue' for vacant places and how they decide who goes first. (I admit I have no knowledge of how this is usually done).

I suggest you start by asking the LEA what their system is and then satisfying yourself that they have followed it. Take it from there.

Markmyplace - should add that, as the distances by which you missed out are so small, you should satisfy yourself that the distances from your home to the various schools have been measured correctly, according to whichever method the LEA uses. You should also ask the LEA how they can be confident of the accuracy if those measurements. If (for argument's sake) they say their measurements are accurate to within 10 metres and you have missed out by 5 metres, you can use that at appeal to cast doubt on whether the refusal of a place was correct.

Is there any advice anyone can offer regarding appeals & waiting lists if you haven't been offered any of your 6 schools, which is the case for us. Thank you.

Thank you very much ladies.

I'll try and explain a bit better! We have 2 catchment schools, presumably because the nearest one (the small peninsula one) only has one class of 30. It's always been oversubscribed as it used to be outstanding, and serves a captive audience on the peninsula. We live about 800m from it. Last year the last place offered was 600m, many places go to siblings, so I was disappointed not to get it, but not shocked.

Our second catchment school is on the mainland, and has 2 classes of 30. Last year everyone who applied got a place, with places to spare.

So the fact that we didn't get a place at either catchment school (I put them first and second) means that there must be 90 four year olds who live nearer both catchment schools than us- I just find this incredible! If you are given a school as catchment, does it not mean that there's a reasonable chance you would get in?

The third school I put was very popular and a faith school, but we are non religious so I knew it was a long shot. I just didn't want to put the fourth local school as it has a bad reputation locally.

Of course the unpopular one is the one we were allocated. I should say that the distances are not huge- it will take me about 15 minutes to drive to the one we've been allocated. But I'll have to drive from the tip of the peninsula, past our first choice, past our second catchment school, to get there.

I'll certainly ring up and find about last place categories and distances. It just seems unfair as we are surrounded on 3 sides by sea, one of which separates us from the mainland, so we are never going to be very near anywhere!

Oh and should also say that the council have tried to have some sort of priority zone, by giving priority to children living east of a certain road on the spit of land. But with fun that, it's still done by distance. So if you live at the easternmost tip of the spit, ie the most isolated with nowhere to go but sea, you would still be beaten by someone living next door to the school. It would seem much fairer if they fed in from the tip backwards towards the school.

But I guess you'd have to live here to think like that...

Mrs GP, is there any sibling preference at either school? If so, there could be four year olds further away than you.

MrsGrumpyPants - thank you for the clarification. I think the additional information you have provided both strengthens and weakens the argument I was suggesting you could make at appeal. Weakens it, because the school you've been allocated isn't as far-flung as I had imagined from your original post (although 15 minutes in the car must still be quite some distance). Strengthens it, because the LEA's attempt to introduce a priority zone must be an indication that they regard the current arrangement as unsatisfactory. Once the dust settles, you should be able to get information about the distance at which the last place was awarded in your admissions category, number of siblings (and whether out of catchment) etc.

And yes, being in a catchment should give you a reasonable chance of a place, but it isn't a cast iron guarantee because (as you've found, sadly) schools can be oversubscribed even within catchment.

Hi Doctrine, yes there's sibling preference, within catchment beats new admissions. I'm sure that's why we didn't get our first choice peninsula school as traditionally at least a third- half have gone to siblings.

The bigger second catchment school rejection is the one which has blindsided me! They also have sibling priority.

I was hoping sibling priority would work for us once we got in, as we have 3 DC. It's also why I'm getting so stressed I guess, as it needs to be the right school for all 3, and we will need to apply for DC2 in autumn 2014 as they are v close in age!

Elfis - if you have not been offered any of your preferences, the LEA is obliged to find a place somewhere for your child. Usually this will be at the nearest school with a vacant place - it may be some distance away and it may be an unpopular, undersubscribed school. Has the LEA made you an offer?

Some LEAs will automatically put you on the waiting list for the schools you applied for. In others, you have to ask to join waiting lists. Obviously, you need to check this with the LEA.

Waiting lists are held in the same order as the school's admissions priorities. If the reason you received no offer is that all your preferences were for schools where you would be a long way down the admissions criteria and were unlikely ever to get a place, you are likely to be low on the waiting list too.

Thanks PanelChair, missed your post before I posted. Yes I'll ring up and get some more information. I at least feel calmer today, I was in a right state yesterday.

You're welcome! The virtue of all these threads, I hope, is that they can provide people with information about how appeals work (and, just as importantly, dispel some of the myths about them). That way, I hope people can approach their appeal, or decide what else to do, with a clear head.

Good luck.

Thanks so much PanelChair. I've spoken to the LEA just now and we missed out by about 16 metres. Even the woman I spoke to said she thought it sounded wrong that I have instead been allocated a place almost an hour away when there so many schools closer. She said it sounded like grounds for an appeal as the school we have been given is over 3 miles from us but everything I have read in the appeals study class I have just given myself over night suggests distance, no matter how far, is not considered in their criteria for an appeal.
There is a bulge class being created at a faith school less than a mile away so we can apply for that but again will they have to apply all of the extra criteria when allocating? Or could we be given a slight priority as the school they did allocate us is at the other side of the borough and once these 30 bulge places become available they are in theory at the closest school to us with an available place? Have a feeling the next month is going to be quite the test!

Are you sure you will be able to apply for the places in the bulge class? Are they being treated as new and separate places?

In the local example that I know about, when the bulge class was added after initial allocations, the places went to the next 30 children on the waiting list, the ones who would have got places if those places had existed at the outset. That then freed up places at several other schools.

Of course, if you apply for the school with the bulge class soon and you live close enough, that may put you high enough up the waiting list to qualify for a place.

And yes, assuming the bulge class places are filled from the waiting list (possibly with new people joining the waiting list in the hope of getting one of the new places), the waiting list will be ranked according to the school's usual admission criteria. If those criteria give priority to members of local churches, they may well be ahead of you on the waiting list (although presumably most church members would have applied and got places in the first round).

Being without a place or having a place further away would not give you any additional priority.

Ahh I see. They made a big deal on their website and in the offer letter I got that one of my options is to apply for this new class by 30th April. I will anyway but it looks like my chances are pretty non-existent then.

Initial advice please.

If a school has never been oversubscribed before and has a PAN of 20 but an actual intake last year of only 11 with a combined reception, year one class does this mean they have wriggle room or does the fact it would now be a combined class of 31 mean not? Asking to try and understand the system a bit better before we start appealing for my nephew.

Basically had they had a full intake last year the class would be 40 for this year but will be 31, hope that makes sense!

Sorry find it all a bit confusing!!

Hi, sorry if this has been covered already (have just read the thread but may have missed it) but is there a deadline for the appeals?

I'm in London, in a very oversubscribed area (Greenwich) and DS was placed in a school quite far, with a terrible Ofsted that was not even on the application list.

I've asked to be included in 5 waiting lists (I'm not even sure if they will allow that many) and I'm waiting to know our position in each of the lists before I appeal or try anything else.