Would we get this day off authorised, what do you think?

[TwistedMelon]

DS is 11 and in Y6. We have just been told that some surprise celebrations have been arranged for a family member (a close family member) who is 70 in a few weeks. There is to be a meal on a friday evening and a day out on the saturday, with as much of the extended family as possible gathered. Many of the family live in the same city and those who don't are fairly nearby and also childfree, so not a problem for most of them to get there! Some other relatives who live abroad are flying over - DS has only met them twice, both times at funerals. They will be staying arriving thursday and leaving sunday morning. The city this will all take place in is 4 hours away from us, plus another hour getting across the city to the area they live in.

I want to take DS down to London for the weekend, leaving friday morning. The family that are flying over are rarely in the country and I want DS to get to meet them under better circumstances than at a funeral! So am planning to ask the head if she will authorise the day off - but, is this likely? Or would I be better off saying nothing and calling him in sick that day? The weekend in question is right before SATs week so worrying that this will affect head's decision...

Hmmm. I think leaving straight after the pm registration will be the best bet in the case.

Its bloody irksome tbh as DS has never had a day off for anything other than genuine stay-in-bed-all-day illness whereas his best friend has about 1 day a fortnight for picking up family from the airport, dentists, 'being tired', because his mum's horse died, and once to meet the new dog they were going to buy But they've never been fined so I guess it must be a slim chance.

We all have to decide how much we value education. Do we value it or only when it is convenient for us? Do we see school attendance as a commitment or not?

I think it is right to compare it to a situation where you ask for time off work. Some people when told they can't have time off, will then phone in sick. Says something about their attitude to the work place and sense of entitlement to do whatever they want. I think that asking permission and then phoning in sick, if turned down, or simply phoning in sick without asking permission shows a lack of respect for the schooling of our children. People try to justify it with all kinds of excuses, but basically it comes down to them deciding that what is convenient for themselves is the most important thing.

One of the reasons I think this happens is because schooling is provided free. People often fail to fully value services that they don't directly pay for. Fewer people would take the time off if they knew the day ad cost them £80 or whatever it does cost. Because it is 'free' it is somehow devalued in people's eyes compared to the 'cost' of the more expensive travel ticket to the family event.

Being off means your child misses work. It also means the teacher has to spend more time with them at a later date catching up, which then reduces the amount of time available for children who actually were there. All fine if there is a genuine reason like illness or funeral. Not reasonable, but selfish otherwise, as far as Im concerned. The fine should be the least of people's worries but the loss of schooling should be. N the fact that the fine becomes the big issue shows where many people's priorities lay.

Sorry if I was a bit on my 'high horse' just now Op.

Perhaps you should ask for a 2pm finish in this case. If you make it clear it is a one off, are honest and don't pull sickies at other times, it is prob okay, esp if you accept their decision if they say 'no'

I think the wholefining thing will take about 5 years to bring about a culture change. Until now, people have expected to be able to have time off for all kinds of random things. The change causes resentment. Within a few years,in the fines are rigorously enforced (which they need to be, if they are to improve attendance) people will not expect to have time off for random things. New laws are often not poular and take time to embed....given time, they become the norm.

I would 100% phone in sick. It won't be authorised so pointless being honest. It sounds like a one off and a special weekend so why let bureaucracy get in the way?

I do value their education, I really do. And I am very strict about going to school, my DC have to be ill enough to spend the day in bed with no electronic entertainment to have a day off for illness! I'm not a soft touch or holiday happy at all.

But this is to me an important chance for him to see these family members - going later on the Friday isn't logistically possible and going on Saturday am would mean only seeing them for half a day as they will be going to bed early to get early flights on Sunday morning.

I surprise myself with my feelings on this matter. With most issues, I'm on the side of the authorities, I'm a line-toer and like to do the 'right thing'.

However, DC1 starts school this year and I'm dreading having to ask for permission to do what I believe to be in her/our as a family's best interests. We have a couple of week day weddings that we will be going to, and dc1's godmother is going to visit from oz (day and time to suit her travel plans) and I believe participation, inclusion and sharing of these events to be extremely important.

So op, in your shoes I'd be doing what I needed to to participate in your family gathering. Fwiw, I thought the fines only apply to 10 sessions' absence, not single days.

Does your school not have a written policy on this ??

it might be worth asking at the office to see if they do as DDs school do have one - got it in front of me now & & according to DDs new school, yes it would be authorised as its an important family gathering/event.

DDs old school would not have officially authorised it, but they had attendance issues, so the HT couldn't be seen to be authorising something like this, but would have been understanding if you phoned in sick

Schools actually prefer you to lie - far better for them to have authorised absence rather than unauthorised.

I'm a teacher and even I would be supporting you taking your child out at lunchtime on a Friday in order for such a big family event. There are plenty of people who do the wrong thing, and that should be addressed, but things are rarely black and white. Day off to go to the zoo which can be scheduled any other time = no. Big family occasion with family flying in from overseas and the parent minimising the time off needed = fine to me.

Is it after SATS week? If so, definitely go for it. I teach.

Dancer, it maybe easier for the school if people lie, but what kind of message does it send to our children?

People don't lie about this to help the school. Lets not kid ourselves that this isthe reason. The reason is to avoid the difficulty of how to respond to a 'no' and to avoid the fine.

If parents feel they genuinely have an exceptional circumstance, then they should ask for time off. Sounds like a 2pm finish might be acceptable.

Quite simply, we can't always have exactly what we want, when we want it. We've all had to say 'no' to social events because we are working or have other commitments. School is exactly the same. I'm not sure why people think it should be more flexible than for example, a shop as an employer saying its staff can't have the Christmas period off. Those who work in shops know that is the rule and accept it.

I think the fact that is just before SATS week will mean it is unauthorised.

Certainly DC's HT (who is usually accepting of the odd day off for family events) has made a blanket statement that she won't authorise anything next term before SATS for Y6.

How does your DS feel about it? Is he the sort to be in a panic if he misses the Friday?

The thing is that in adult life, you can negotiate with your employer. Even as a teacher, if I were in the OPs situation I would talk to the principal and request leaving at 2pm on that day in order to attend. They would then determine whether it was possible - could classes be combined for an hour, could they step in for an hour, could the librarian/pe teacher/etc cover? There would rarely be a blanket 'no' and both parties would work together in order to come up with a solution - I would minimise time off by going later in the day, he would contribute by making arrangements to cover for the extra hour. Even those working standard 9-5 would generally be able to make up time, work through lunch, etc in order to go.

Missing an hour or two of school on a Friday afternoon for a family event is not even remotely comparable to a two week term time jaunt to the beach.

Twisted:

I think everyone has discussed the issue of telling/ not telling the school in depth & the pros/ cons of the approaches and it also sounds like you've made up your mind to go (which I can understand completely).

I think the only thing that does occur is you need to carefully think through when this Friday will fall. As far as I know KS2 SATs dates are Mon - Thurs 12-15 May (see table at bottom of this link: www.education.gov.uk/sta/keystage2/b00208296/ks2-2014/ks2-2013/ks2_2013) - but if the Friday is around this time and does conflict with testing you may need to make a difficult decision.

HTH

The fact that it is so close to the SATs week will no doubt influence the head's decision, so asking for the day off will almost for sure get a no reaction.
I would explain the circumstances and ask for a couple of hours off, that is pick up from school at 1.15. I would also make the point that you are concerned that child is getting a bit anxious about SATs week and going away for the weekend at this family gathering will take his mind of the SATs tests the next week and hopefully mean that he will perform well in them.
You have then given the head a ready made reason for allowing a couple of hours off, which will not show on their attendance record as they will have registered for the afternoon. It is almost a certainty that there will be other children who for one reason or another - dentist, doctors etc will be off that afternoon as well.

Interesting to read your experiences as a teacher in Australia asking to leave at 2 pm on Friday, midnitescribbler - as a teacher in England you would have no chance!

Surely the problem schools have is that if they authorise one parent (for non exceptional circumstances), then they have the added headache of other parents requesting a Friday off here and there. Said parents could then use the fact that another parent was authorised so why not them?

I don't agree with calling in a 'sickie'.

Our school would likely authorise this. I got authorisation to take ds to a weekday wedding but he was only 4 at the time.

I am chortling to myself at asking for time off and reasoning that it is helpful due to stress about SATs! Perhaps the whole class would like to take the afternoon off for that reason. Go on Saturday morning, and send your child to school on Friday.

Dancer, it maybe easier for the school if people lie, but what kind of message does it send to our children?

Yes I would agree with that but the child doesn't even have to know!

I can't believe how much fuss people are making over one sodding day for a good reason. TBH the whole system at the moment is ridiculous - schools are under enormous pressure to keep up they attendance stats, standard letters going out to children who have long term illnesses etc. Don't get caught up in it. There is a world of difference between parents who don't really care about their child's attendance and the OP who clearly values education.

Sometimes special events take precedence over school, that's life. It would be awful for a child to miss a special occasion to keep up their school's attendance figures. And missing the odd day here and there doesn't affect a child's education, that's just nonsense.

And I don't get the SATS relevance. Missing a SATS exam would be one thing understandably, but to miss the Friday before...?! It's hardly going to make a difference between a level 4 and a level 5 is it?

Feenie - It can happen. Very much depends on the head.

Feenie, it would depend on the situation, just like in any job. But I am fortunate that my employer is a reasonable human being and understands that life is rarely black and white and that teachers do have a life outside of school. An hour on a Friday afternoon is pretty much nothing in the grand scheme of things. We would discuss it and probably end up doing something such as arranging a specialist class - sport, music or a session with the teacher-librarian in order to cover that time. A whole day or longer for a weekend away would not be feasible (and I wouldn't even ask), but an hour an a friday afternoon is rarely the most productive time of the week in any classroom.

I count my head as reasonable. Christmas performances, yes. Class assemblies once a year - yes, apart from this year's fell on a training day outside of school, so no chance (childminder went + 16 year old son on training day who has known ds since he was 9 months, so his 'other' family was there ). But leaving early on a Friday for a family gathering? No chance.

Well if you're usually strict about school and this is a one off, then I'd probably go. I can see why you would want to. If its not going to get authorized and you can't afford the fine, then I'd probably ring in sick. Not ideal, but then I guess you don't get many opportunities like this