Terrible class in a great school - wwyd?

[Jaffacakesareyummy]

Now a good 5 terms in and know the class well, I'm worried. Whilst senior staff are on to any issues quickly, they are I am sure, having to work really hard. Very boy heavy, odd mix of characters, behaviour at break time very rough still, large lower ability with speech issues and a few act out because of this. In general there isn't a group to 'look up to'.

The school is fab, lots of energy from staff, kind and caring, strong leaders.

Daughter due to start in sep. If her class are the same I would move them both for sure.......but I am torn as to what to do if she has a great year group,

Went into see year 1 work and was a bit disappointed as not really applying them self like they can do at home.....normal?!

Wwyd?

Is it a one form entry school? They may mix up the classes in y3 if it is 2 or 3 form.

We had this in dad's first school. The school had always been great and do was the 4th generation of our family who attended. She used to come home with tales of absolutely terrible behaviour. Teachers were moved around specifically so the most experienced teacher took that class.

We moved across the country at the end of year 1 so do obviously had a different school which ofsted said was good where the first school was apparently outstanding. It was like a completely different world, do was so much happier.

Our friends from the first school told us to be glad we left when we did because the following year they split the class and mixed them with the younger class, so they now had 2 split-year classes. The theory being that the challenging children would be split up and balanced out with the more amenable children from the year below. It didn't work. They ended up with 2 challenging classes instead of just 1. Almost half of the children in that class moved schools that year.

My plan was to wait and see how daughters class look, BUT as you said tiggietape this seems really unfair on older dc. There is another school, but again I won't know what the class for reception is like until September. My concern is moving both will be hard due to places, BUT can you imagine a class like that in year 5/6?! Or might they mature ?

Hmm - difficult.

Dd seems to be in a similar situation. I have no personal basis for comparison as she is an only child. But parents with multiple dc in the school regularly comment that dd's year has the reputation of being full of demanding/difficult personalities mixed with many nuanced learning/behavioural issues that must be managed by the teaching staff. (One parent who regularly substitutes when teachers are away, ill etc., told the school not to call her again for this group as she found it too difficult and unpleasant.)

It seems to leave dd (and her group of like-minded friends) in a tricky situation. As they are well behaved, can follow instructions and accomplish the work in a timely manner and to a high standard, they seem to be somewhat ignored by the staff and often find themselves paired with the most difficult children for tasks/projects. On one hand, I understand the logic of 'for the greater good of the community', and also know that while dd may not be benefitting much academically from these partnered situations, she is learning important life lessons in patience and tolerance. On the other hand, why should my child regularly have this responsibility? Who is meeting her needs?

The irony? The school has a brilliant academic reputation, and will point to the grades/test results of dd's small group (and dc in other years) as evidence they are doing a good job. Makes me wonder (regularly) how she'd be doing if she was in a class with more kids who were interested in learning and where the teaching staff could focus on teaching the material instead of simply maintaining order.

OP - sorry to rant. I feel your pain, and shall watch this thread with interest. What should a school do if they find this situation exists?

DS's first year group was similar. And the most disheartening thing about it was the steady trickle of "more sensible" kids leaving, which left the class even more skewed towards the more troubled and assertive children. It seemed that everytime he made a friend, they would leave. If you think that may happen as the year group moves through the school, it may be worth considering jumping ship earlier, before spaces at alternative schools fill up.

My DD1 was in a difficult class/year group in primary school. Supply teachers regularly left in tears never to return. They got the best SATs results in the school's history though, and DD1 is loving secondary school where there is very little disruption (girls comp).

My son had a class like this at his first school. Whatever the school did, the chemistry between the boys was terrible and very disruptive, and extremely aggressive at playtime. He moved schools after a couple of years and his new class (incidentally, a very young and boy-heavy class, with a high proportion of summer born) behaves impeccably during lessons and playtime, with a very happy and kind atmosphere amongst the children.

We have a similar problem at DS's school. Half the class is ultra competitive to the point of being vile. The cocky children that put everyone down tend to be the older ones his class. I blame the parenting.

I would look to move as it doesn't sound as if things will get better, and parents of the nicer kids will probably be looking to move them out too. Once your dc2 has started, it will be trickier to get places in another school.

The first thing you could do is have a look round the other schools and explain the issue to their heads. You need an honest indication of what your sons year group is like.

Unfortunately, what can happen is that if you start off with a 'challenging' year, some parents can move their children out, leaving spaces which are filled by new arrivals who may have EAL issues or are moving because of problems in previous schools.

Even if they are perfectly lovely, the very fact of new arrivals means that the class is disrupted yet again. There is only a certain amount of teacher/TA time to go round, and the more demanding children there are in the class, the less attention a 'quiet/get on with it' child is going to get.

And yes, they won't be the class selected for the special music workshop or the trip or the story writing session if they have a reputation of being badly behaved.

I would get out now if you can.

We had that in Reception, which was solved by mixing for year one. It was only our class though so that might make a difference. Until I started helping out in school I had no idea that you got a class personality or a year group personality, but it is so true. You definitely do. Son's class is very good at working together but they don't always use this super power for good. A weak teacher or TA will be eaten alive by them.

Part of it is that the cohort of girls in the class has more than half 'alpha' female types who are all way above average in all subjects, or just very strong personalities. In the first year that causes problems but since then they've learned to get along and in the meantime two more exceptionally extroverted girls have joined the class. It has been interesting!

DD has had this throughout her time at primary and is now in Yr6. Her year has always been very difficult (strong personalities, additional needs, horrendous behaviour, etc) The disruption caused by the children has been compounded by teachers being unable to cope and going off sick/leaving (we have lost count of the teachers DD's year has ) and by 3 head teachers by the beginning of Yr4.
Finally the latest head started to get a grip on the class during Yr4 and things have steadily improved. DD and the quieter, hard-working children were very overlooked in the general mayhem of trying to manage the disruptive ones but new structures (2 classes divided into 3 for some lessons), consistent discipline, better, more structured teaching (we've had the whole 'special measures thing during this too!) and the departure of a few 'personalities' has meant DD is loving school and finally being stretched academically.
It has been worth sticking it out (though we got very close to moving her in Yr4) and DD and her friends should have no problem with the transition to high school - different teachers all the time (no problem!), weird and wonderful children (no problem!), ability to work whilst noise and chaos surrounds you (no problem!) They are also a very strong, supportive group of friends as they have been through so much together.
However if I was to do it all again I'm not sure what I would do. You want your child to be happy and supported to learn at school, this hasn't been DD's experience although it is now.

DS, on the other hand, is now in Yr3 at the same school and has had a superb experience throughout - completely different year group, completely different dynamics. Lucky boy!

Not sure if I have helped :)

Very helpful thank you! Just chatting to dh. We would 100% move for secondary anyway, so we may as well move now. I can change my choices for dd starting in September sadly so both will have to go on a waiting list........it could get very tricky! I was going to start a thread asking people's experience of moving and starting secondary. Is it a disadvantage not having known primary school friends on your door step? If so, moving now would be a good idea.