A question for Scottish primary teachers

[Teuchtermam]

On entry to P1, on average, how many kids out of 100 are able to read and to what degree? Do teachers generally group the kids who are already reading together from the start or are children not divided in to groups by ability now?

I'm not a teacher, but do have children in the scottish education system. Our LA use read write inc and the children are grouped across the stage not just the class, P1s and P2s can be in the same groups. Other work is done in class in groups of mixed ability.

We rarely have children who can read when they come into school. Most start off in rough groupings until the October break then they're sorted out a bit more.

We have an on-entry assessment so that usually gives the teachers a rough idea of where to place the pupils

Thanks for your replies. I was just trying to get a feel for whether it is one in twenty unusual or one in one hundred unusual. There will be a hundred odd kids going up to primary one in our village in 2015 and I was hoping that Dd will not be the only one reading already as I don't want her to feel different or cause extra hassle for the teacher. Thanks again

Sorry, forgot to ask, do children who can read on entry do reading with an older class or are they catered for in their own class?

In my experience they're catered for at their own level but in their own class.

100 kids going into P1 in a village seems a huge amount!

I teach in a large primary school and the biggest intake we have is usually about 50.

That would be great. Yes, four p1 classes here! They are building a new primary in a couple of years though.

Not a teacher but in dd2 year there were about 5 or 6 fluent readers and at least the same again starting P1 able to read ORT level 3 or 4 (out of 75 kids). Think it is a very bright year though!

My thinking is, what with it being a very big primary, that hopefully Dd1 will hit a year like Bilberry's Dd2, or if not there will be at least one or two other kids like her so she won't feel singled out if they are grouped together.

Dd1 hates to feel different and has pretends not to be able at nursery, only to complete tasks without a problem when she thinks she's not being observed. Luckily her teacher is ok with this and plays along!

Euphemia your nursery sounds very good. Ours tells us nothing. We have had pupils with horrendous behaviour who were described as fine by the nursery. Also they seem to have no idea (or fail to tell us) which pupils are more/less able.

This seems to have coincided with teachers being removed from nurseries.

Thank you both. Hopefully Dd's nursery will pass along her profile - as she does have one that comes home to be read and signed once a term - next year. Dd is a spring born baby so missed this year's intake.

Euphemia, are the more able children from nursery grouped together for p1, and if so how is ability assessed? For example Dd's reading and maths abilities are far superior to her writing and drawing.

DS could read when he started school. They normally do baseline testing within the first few weeks. After this he did all reading with the P2 class.

Just saw your last post. DS was also much further ahead with his reading than his writing which made things a bit tricky.

Thank you, Hadmeathello.

My concern for Dd is that she might continue to do as she is doing now, pretending not to be able to do things she can so that she fits in with the other children. If she is together with children of a similar ability then this won't be a problem. Good to know this is potentially an option if in-class differentiation doesn't work out for her.

Of course, she could change a lot in the next 18 months or so!

My dd also goes to a Primary School in Scotland with increasingly large intakes. 80 in her year (P4) with larger P1-P3 yeargroups.

Ability groups for reading, spelling and maths have been evident since P1. I remember her P1 teacher showing me her place on what was I think called a PIPs test (reading). The teacher did explain thought that it was only a starting point.

There are two incredibly brights boys in dd's class and they are in a group by themselves a lot of the time.

Thanks Yama, I do vaguely recall hearing something about PIPS tests before but wasn't aware parents are told results.

Thanks Euphemia, Dd is very quiet and I assume it will take any new teacher a while to get to know her. Glad to know that time is taken.

Teuchtermam - there is also testing at age 7 and then in P7. I asked about dd's scores last year in P3 and the teacher sent me a letter with her scores.

I will be asking again in P7.

Do you still do PIPS at P3 and P7? We've gone over to INCAS for P3 and P6 but think we still do PIPS at P1 although I'm not really involved much with infants.

Our parents were never told scores and even when I asked about my son's in P7 I was fobbed off.

At dd's school it was PIPS in P1 and INCAS in P3. I asked the school for dd's scores and received no problem. I believe parents have a right to know any data help on their children.

I'll be asking again next time.

My daughter's school seems to be very good at giving the children appropriate work. They were all assessed early in P1 and put on different levels of reading books according to ability.

One thing I would say is don't expect this to happen straight away. There was a few weeks at the start of the year when she seemed to be doing phonics work that was easy for her. This was just the teacher getting to know the children's ability and letting them settle into school.

By the October break, the class seemed to be settled within ability groups for reading and number work. For phonics work they all seemed to be able to go at their own pace so e.g DD raced through it and moved on quite quickly. For Number as well they get appropriate level workbooks and she's now on simple multiplication whereas others are on different workbooks.

I've been pretty impressed at the ability to cater for the different learning needs of the children in the class