Does your DC have to read every book in a stage before moving up a level or are the posters that have said this liars?

[diamondage]

Oh dear I've really gone and done it now. I posted in AIBU to ask about this issue and someone stated that they doubt any primary schools have a policy requiring DCs to read every book in a stage.

Clearly the implication is that parents raising this issue are liars.... I just don't believe it. Surely no one would lie about this?

Please tell me I've not been hoodwinked, getting twisty knickered (where's the slight tongue-in-cheek emoticon) for no reason because 0 primary schools in the land actually have this, in my opinion, daft policy?

If I have been hoodwinked I'll ask HQ to remove my AIBU as it would be entirely moot! (Keeping fingers crossed for some rightfully outraged mums stating that this policy does exist)

The ORT bookbanding scheme on the reading chest website lists what age children should read which books. There's also a more involved version somewhere which lists NC levels, children's ages and book band colours together in the same chart.

Some teachers and literacy coordinators take the charts literally (ours does). So, in effect it means that if you're x years old you have to read this colour book.

And, if you've read all the available books at that colour people go and find some more very old and tatty ones.

The issue about lying is this:

[qualification fallacy]
Teachers are experienced and qualified (parents are not) therefore pupils are on the correct level of reading books.

(The implication is not that parents are lying, but that they just don't understand what colour book their child is supposed to have. The qualification fallacy has been much discussed elsewhere on mn.)

I know DS had to read every book in each level, he is year 5 now and has been a free reader for years but I vividly remember the strops from him when he started because DS is a very keen reader and was bored with the pink books, thankfully his year 1 teacher thought this policy was as stupid as I did so bumped him up from yellow to gold on the condition I didn't mention it to other parents.

DD's school move them up when they are ready, regardless of how many books they've read on that level, or even if they've read that level, I know DD's best friend was put on yellow in the first week of reception.

Slackgardener - yes, this issue isn't all about the parents, you're not the only mum to mention the negative impact that this policy can have on DCs.

Galena - it's great to hear your DD is enthusiastic about the scheme books (and some DCs love them all). Do you know why the school assess reading and comprehension ages but not use them to determine where a child starts on the reading bands? Presumably you'd feel less happy about this policy if your DD had not been jumped to green because if she's moved up 3 bands without that jump she'd now be on green which sounds like a massive discord with her actual ability? What makes you think they are working on anything much with her, perhaps it's easier to wait until the others catch up (I'm not really being provocative, it's a possibility, but hopefully you have a feel for whether or not this is actually the case)?

So certainly there's no evidence that DCs under this policy are being taught to their ability let alone stretched.

Ds2 is 5y7m and has been reading ORT stage 3 books since December. He gets two a week. So far he's read all of the first phonics, storybooks, more stories pack A, more stories pack B and this week brought home sparrows, though one book appears to no longer be part of the scheme.

He started reading stage 1+ songbirds in nursery this time last year. He was on stage 2 songbirds by the time he moved to reception, having done the floppy's phonics, first phonics and snapdragons. He then read all the stage 2 storybooks, more stories packs A and B and both patterned story packs.

The school has a number of different reading schemes they could be using with him - rigby star, phonics bug, bug club to name but three but they're insisting on him reading all the dull as ditchwater ORT stuff.

Teacher is new to the class following his teacher moving to another class further up the school to cover long term sickness. He's spent some time assessing his reading ability and agrees that he's fluent and expressive, his comprehension is spot on and that he's a very capable reader but has sent home photocopies of the pages of the book for him to arrange into the correct order which he can do within minutes - he didn't even read the book a second time before he did the activity and got it all in the correct order straight away.

I'm finding it very frustrating. He's my third child to learn to read. He reads plenty at home and a massive variety of material as well. For whatever reason they're obviously not willing to disclose, the school appear to be totally unwilling move him beyond the yellow band at this point in time. I can only assume they don't want him to get too far ahead of the rest of the class.

I think are school might have moved towards this policy, in reception year anyway.
My son (yr2) has been moved up as and when he's ready (sometimes only been on a band for 3weeks before going up again). BUt my DD in reception is STILL on level 1a+ (Pink) books, she's ploughing through them all, she gets each book in a particular set, then starts a new level 1a+ set. She reads them with complete ease. Its slightly dull for me (I recall them from first time around 2 yrs ago!) but she doesnt seem to mind (or realise) and we're supplementing at home with more challenging books.

I don't mind in reception year actually - it has given my DD enormous confidence being able to read masses of straight forward books. However, if it continues up the bands, I might start to drift off with boredom I worry she will get bored of reading.

We always supplement the school scheme (ORT) with our own books, although I appreciate this isnt always available for other people.

our school, not are...gosh, spelling test for me

I suspect sometimes the school says "your dc needs to read every book" meaning your dc needs the consolidation at this level before moving up. What the parent hears is "every dc needs to read every book", which is a different thing.

I've certainly been witness to a conversation between two parents (not my dc's school) where this was the case.
Child A's mum: My dc is so much better than the level they're on, but the school insists they read every book before they move up.
Child B's mum (in same form, so same teacher): Are you sure? Dc moved up twice this half term, and only read a dozen books on X level.

Didn't go down well with Child A's mum, who stormed into school the next day to demand to know why and was told that. I think she's talking to child B's mum again, but I'm not sure.

I think it varies between schools and is probably much less common than people think. People get so competitive about early reading that it isn't funny. My DDs skipped levels frequently, school did differentiation very well, but I soon learned not to talk about book bands because some people were just very about it. It ended up being a 'must not discuss' topic for us in the playground. Fortunately I ended up taking a f/t job when DD1 started Yr2 so I wasn't a school gate mum any more.

DeWe I think in some cases that is probably true.
I guess in that case it all comes down to communication between the school and the parent. The school know what they are looking for for a child to change the levels, the parent may not - like Euphemia's example higher up in the post. When a school is open and transparent with the parents then the parent is more likely to respect and trust the teacher's opinion. When my DSs have been held for a long period at a reading level the teachers have told me (without me asking) why they are doing that, what they are looking to see before they move bands. If I hadn't seen them jump up bands before that it would be easy to assume that they had to read every book before moving up.

Thank you sparkling brook ds 1 flew whilst ds 2 plods, something I have being worrying about recently , it's good to hear from someone who's experienced that aswell

For me the question is, if the school policy is (or seems to be) set in stone and the child is (or seems to be) capable of extended reading and textual analysis

then

how to appear to be complying with the school policy whilst in actual fact completely ignoring it...

At the moment the conclusion I've come to is that it is impossible to give that appearance. The parent must either comply (and rot her child's brain) or oppose, even if quietly, the reading policy.

CG if it really is the school policy, I guess the only thing to do is to check the actual literacy policy, if it isn't written in there then maybe there is hope? If it is written in the policy then lobby the governor with responsibility for literacy - try and find examples of best practice else where that show that children allowed to read at the level that is right for them is good differentiation (which has to be provided to ESTYN so sure it must do to OFSTED).

Well, the literacy coordinator has written to me saying that it is, but she could be wrong, I suppose. I think it would be much easier for us to read other books than to mount a campaign, however worthy. If it was a life and death issue, then OK. But it isn't. I don't like the idea of civil disobedience. But, in this case it's worth it.

I do often wonder whether such a policy is "stated" rather than properly carried out.

The issue with reading books is that people can google the book band charts, compare with other parents/rifle through playdates' bookbags and in many schools it is the only regular, comparable and quantifiable thing that comes home. If there was a national maths worksheet scheme with ability bands, and every week or every night a worksheet was sent home at DC's level then we would all be fussing about maths instead of reading.

Since reading is the only thing that most parents can gauge teacher-perceived progress in (especially compared to others) at home on a weekly basis (because of book bands/levels charts etc.) then it can be an easy thing to fix on. A stated policy of reading every book in the scheme means a teacher can use that as a brass wall to deflect parents pushing for progress through the scheme: and parents can use it as an explanation of "slower than desired" progress eg Little Hugo should be on Lime, but since school has this stupid policy he is bored out of his G&T mind on pink. So moaning, but perhaps secretly relieved.

Neither of our primaries has had such a policy, so teachers are constantly cornered by anxious parents wanting children to move up. Undoubtedly maybe some should and some shouldn't - but I can't help but think a stated policy (especially if quietly circumvented from time to time) would make it easier to access a teacher at pick up time with other issues/queries.

Soz for essay...

but I can't help but think a stated policy (especially if quietly circumvented from time to time) would make it easier to access a teacher at pick up time with other issues/queries.

You mean if parents knew in advance what the score was they'd quit bothering the teachers about reading matters, leaving room for queries about football practise, lost gym shoes and luncheon vouchers?

hmm,

interesting. I've never considered that angle! Mind you, I'd rather have no stupid policy and a queue of pushy reading mums. (I can't speak for anyone else! Is it possible that you hanker after a stupid reading policy because you've never experienced one?)

I don't hanker after any policy. I am merely suggesting a possible benefit to it. And when I or other parents wish to raise a problem (like possible bullying, maths query, update on seriously ill other parent/sibling etc., that are hard to deal with via note in bag) it is frustrating to have to wait for The Same Four Mums to finish their near-daily rant about how Lucifer is bored to tears on his current reading level. Especially when boring reading material is simply dealt with by writing "no problem" in the reading diary whether you've read it or not and finding something else more interesting to read.

It seems to me that the issue is not merely about the level or quality of the reading books, but acknowedged, perceived and comparative progress through the book bands.

Isn't the issue different for different people at different schools in different places? Or do you mean the issue in regard to your four mums and Lucifer's boring reading book? In the case of Lucifer and his four mums, yes, that might well be the problem.

We've been at two schools in this country and both feature the phenomenon. Also the concern features frequently on MN in varying forms on numerous threads. People rightly are interested in how their children are doing and want them to do well. Having a national banding scheme gives parents an idea of progress.

As a control group, my home country has no banding scheme and I didn't encounter anything like this level of concern or interest in reading levels - over there it is all about the maths workbooks instead.

You don't need a banded scheme to work out the progress, you just give the child a book, let her read it and then ask a few probing questions.

The best thing they can do with banded books is dig a big hole in the school playing field and bury the damn things.

DeWe yes I'm sure that is the case in some schools (the policy applies to a certain child / some children) but there's enough people posting, including helpers that indicate that this can be a year group or teacher policy across the board. Poor mum A whatever her faults I can't see the lying will have helped matters!

LittleMiss: I guess the only thing to do is to check the actual literacy policy, if it isn't written in there then maybe there is hope? I like your thinking!

QuiteQuietly Agreed, there is a possible advantage to the teachers (though the only two teachers to comment on a previous but related thread thought it was a bad policy), but honestly I'm more concerned about DCs becoming bored stiff with reading books that are too easy if they are not being assessed due to a read every book policy. Sure if the child is only one or two book bands out then it's not much of a problem but that relies on the child getting no other books at home because if they do then they'll only pull further and further ahead of where they're supposed to be at school.

No banding scheme, but how do the children learn how to read . Actually I am interested in the how - if there are early readers are they not incremental in some way?

You do hit on a valid point regarding the naturally competitive nature of some mums. However as most schools manage to deal with them and still retain an assessment approach for deciding which book band to place a child upon, I think that all schools could, and should. Fancy limiting an able child because a few mums are PITA.

Actually schools (at least those that don't) could help parents and their pupils if they gave out more information about what's required at each level and examples of the types of questions that need asking to ensure that home reading isn't just about decoding.

columngollum - I'm with you, if I experienced it I would spend some time trying to understand and change the system, if I couldn't then I'd buck it .

I think it's harder to change in our school because I think everyone's moaning about it. All the teacher/coordinator must hear is how bad it is. I think they've pretty much got a rubber stamp which says book1 book2 book3 next, next! next! book4

a bit like the army. To be honest, I think you'd have more luck pissing in the wind than changing this particular system. (And it's a big school, too.) I can see where they're coming from. I think their system sucks dogs' balls. But I can see why it's there.