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Primary education

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Year 6 stressful?

49 replies

sunsout · 25/03/2014 12:45

DD was crying last night and this morning saying there has been too many tests since beginning of y6 especially since January. Of course they have the usual weekly spelling and maths tests. But in the last few months they seem to have reading, writing, maths paper tests nearly every couple of weeks constantly checking their nc levels preparing for sat. Of course if she doesn't do well she may have to move down table or whatever. I keep telling her not to worry about sat levels too much whether she is level 5, 4,3or 2. It doesn't matter anymore as it will be over by another month just do her best. I did ask her if she would rather be at home to avoid the test today. What would you do?

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partystress · 25/03/2014 21:58

I can only see it getting worse as long as we have a league table driven system and a political culture that assumes teachers are lazy and will try to get away without educating children unless bombarded with threats.

Ofsted Requires Improvement or Inadequate gradings (which are almost inevitable if a school falls below floor targets) trigger the removal of headteachers, and sometimes governing bodies, as well as months, possibly years of stressful inspections and scrutiny masquerading as support. This impacts on the whole school, so it is no surprise that Y6 teachers (I am one Sad) feel immense pressure to achieve ever more challenging targets.

Children have not changed over the past 25 years, but expectations of what most children would achieve have morphed into a minimum that all children would achieve. What was seen as exceptional progress over the four years of key stage two is no longer even good. The 'beyond expected level' that was envisaged as being achieved by very few children, is now, in many schools (including my own, with high mobility, high EAL, high free school meals cohorts) expected to be achieved by upwards of 40% of children.

I love this age group, but feel terribly sad not to be able to give them the breadth of education and fun that they deserve at this age.

GoodnessIsThatTheTime · 25/03/2014 22:17

Party I think you're right. I really don't understand the constant wanting everyone be "above average" , setting higher targets and then complaining when teachers don't meet them.

I really don't like the culture change all the target driven approaches have made. Luckily my cold is enjoying infant school but I'm close to choosing to homeschool for Junior if we can afford it. There's just so much more to school that I want her to be part of.

Is criminal what is happening education. The God taggers will levee, turnover increases until teachers are just managers of units instead of children.

Saracen · 25/03/2014 23:20

"Were not there yet but I've wondered about homeschooling for the year and back in for yr 7. Would it be a problem not having sats?"

We sometimes have Y6 refugees arriving at our home education group. It's a pity if the stress of this year drives people away from the school system. But at least the timing makes it easy. It's just until the end of the school year. If your kids are just getting drilled incessantly at school, then you don't have to worry about letting them down academically because whatever they learn at home is probably going to be an improvement over the exam factory. They can easily join secondary school without feeling like the odd one out, because everybody else will be new too anyway. No worries about losing out on a school place, as their eligibility for their secondary school place doesn't depend on being at primary school.

Many secondary schools don't even use SATs for setting. It isn't always seen as a good reflection of the child's ability, since some primary schools focus far more on SATs preparation than others. You could get in touch with the school to which your child will be going and ask.

A year out, or even a term out, could be a nice break and a chance to focus on something different. You could follow whatever passion your child currently has, or do some trips to interesting places.

angelcake20 · 25/03/2014 23:55

DS's year 6 has been the best of KS2. Yes, they have done SATs practice papers once every half term and he has one booster class per week (in school time) for level 6 maths and English but they have done loads of science compared to other years, lots of topic (rivers and volcanoes at the moment) and seem to have spent a fair amount of the last couple of weeks designing and making biscuits. He has found both maths and English much more interesting than previously as they are actually being taught at the correct level for a change.

MrsKCastle · 26/03/2014 07:16

Part of the problem is that high-achieving schools can afford to spend the time on the fun stuff- their results are already secure from years of good teaching.

Schools that have had difficulties in the past with poor teaching, high staff turnover, high mobility of pupils etc have to get their pupils to progress a whole level or more (sometimes even 2) in just a few months from Sep-may.

Shimmyshimmy · 26/03/2014 07:28

I know what will happen, my dc will get booster classes, they will spend the next few weeks revising, as they have done all year. They will hit Sats week and after the test we will not hear the word maths again till they go to secondary in September. Not doing maths for 3 months - my dc will love that but I doubt it will help him much come September.

ThreeTomatoes · 26/03/2014 08:06

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mashabell · 26/03/2014 19:48

Goodness: I really don't like the culture change all the target driven approaches have made.

Neither do. Especially as Finnish pupils have their first formal test at 18, yet regularly achieve higher overall standards than the rest of the world.

The government is partly to blame. But the root cause of the testing madness is the messiness of English spelling. Laugh if u like, but it's true.

For several decades now all English-speaking countries have been desperate to raise overall educational attainment, because none of them have been doing very well in international comparisons. There have also been constant complaints from employers about the poor literacy and numeracy skills of many of their new recruits (ever since 1929, when they complained to the Newbolt commission).

In today's world, literacy is a crucial skill. And at school too: the children who struggle with learning to read and write, who need a very long time for it, invariably end up not learning much during their 11 years of compulsory schooling.

So from the mid 80s onwards there has been growing pressure to drive up literacy standards - by means of more rigorous testing and shaming teachers with SATs results published in League Tables, based on the belief that English literacy standards can be improved by teachers making their pupils work harder.

Yet despite all the testing and the pressure to raise standards, overall attainment hasn't changed. SATs results have gone up and down a bit, but roughly 1 in 5 pupils still start secondary school with poor literacy skills and finish their 11 years of compulsory schooling knowing very little – because the reason why they have trouble learning to read and write remains unaddressed:
the inconsistencies of English spelling.

Learning to read continues to be difficult because of baffling inconsistencies like 'go – do, on – only, once; here – there, were' in 2,000+ very common words. Learning to write takes even longer, because over 4,000 words have tricky letters which need to be learned one by one: men – many, speak – speech, so – show, toe.

With average intelligence or above, and plenty of help, starting from the youngest age possible, children cope. Three quarters to 80% of all pupils can read well by the end of primary school. By the end of secondary, half can spell quite well too. The bottom half never never become good spellers, and roughly 1 in 5 remain functionally illiterate. - The English literacy learning burden is simply too great for them.

We could reduce literacy failure and overall underachievement by modernising English spelling and making learning to read and write easier, as all other European countries have done, to varying degrees, over the past 200 years. Here we have lots of tests instead.
Masha Bell

HolidayCriminal · 29/03/2014 07:51

I am not so sure I believe that... French has loads of half-hidden letters in its words, too. Plenty languages are not phonetic.
And the Far Eastern writing system, omg. I know a very clever Malaysian guy. He speaks 4 languages (reckons it's normal in his home country, I think his wife speaks 5) but he said he could never learn to read all the oriental-language characters. One reason that Far Eastern kids spend long hours in crammers is to gain mastery at ~2000 pictograms used in their languages with only a vague logic of how they're constructed, some only rarely used and a person has to memorise nearly all to be fluent.

There's some terrific research about how & why the PISA league tables don't care like with like.

PastSellByDate · 29/03/2014 08:10

Very interesting discussion from both parents/ teachers perspectives.

The one thing that occurs - and as my name suggests I'm quite old compared to most Mums - is can't a lot of this 'stress' be avoided by schools just employing benchmarks?

One of my main pleas with our schools HT & SMG is that during DD1s (now Y6) journey through this school at no point did they have milestones where by this point you should be able to read, you should be able to add/ subtract/ you should be able to tell time/ etc....

Sweetly it was all 'children develop at their own speed' - an idea I do have respect for - but there does need to be a point where common sense comes in and if a child (say like my DD1) can't take one from 10 by let's say end Y2 - then extra support should be given.

And giving children extra support shouldn't be a secret from the parents (as our school handles it). Most parents, myself included, are more than happy to help but we're looking for guidance on how to do that most effectively and information on what particularly we should work on at home. I realise schools want a smooth relationship - but endlessly telling parents your child is doing just fine, will improve next year, and other useful platitudes that basically mean do nothing/ wait and see - is remembered, especially when a few years later the school is then telling parents they've really got to do more at home and work hard this year (which rather implies it wasn't happening in previous years - which was what the school told parents to do).

Our school now is clearly on 'panic stations' and seriously hot housing the lower performing group. I don't blame them, I understand the pressures they as a school are under and their desire to get the requisite 65% over the NC L4 threshold for English/ Maths (which right now is looking a little shaky from what the children are saying teachers are saying). [Just as an aside teachers older children are very able to report to parents what you're saying].

I can't help but wonder, if they had had milestones and earlier intervention to support struggling students, whether a lot of this late in the day intensive support could have been avoided entirely.

ThreeTomatoes · 29/03/2014 08:35

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sunsout · 29/03/2014 08:37

I am one of the very annoying parents who really believe in small daily homework away from classrooms can support learning effectively. But then endless comments from many parents and teachers saying how much they don't believe in the usefulness of homework. Now schools need to show high performing results so suddenly homework has become an important part of learning. I don't know anymore!

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NewtRipley · 29/03/2014 18:51

Tell her that whilst she might want to do as well as she can, these tests are not important. They are to test the school not her. I'd be quite robust about saying that, for the sake of her mental health.

I don't blame teachers for this situation, but it is ridiculous

pointythings · 29/03/2014 19:15

sunsout re homework I have to say that I have always been sceptical about homework in primary. And this has now been strongly reinforced by the fact that my DD is currently bringing home considerably less homework than before but is clearly benefiting greatly from some very good and intense teaching during school hours. As I mentioned upthread, she isn't just doing endless drill, she is doing a lot of challenging extension stuff as well as useful consolidation work - all during school time. Her homework currently comes to less than 20 minutes a week.

Moid1 · 29/03/2014 19:30

DS2 is enjoying the SAT boosters, he has totally come on, especially in maths and now might be doing a year 6 paper. He is looking forward to it.
Not so sure about the SPAG, I bought him some workbooks for maths and english and put them upstairs in his bedroom. He has done some of them himself, I haven't put any pressure on him and just left him alone.

Does make you wonder the school has been doing for the last 3 years, no papers have come home, no homework but definitely lots of booster classes have been going on for kids that just need a bit of 'extra' support.

But his year 6 teachers are great and he is really happy so that helps.

GoodnessIsThatTheTime · 30/03/2014 06:17

Gosh that would be a nightmare of they spent 4 years preparing for sats and sending home papers.

tests like these were meant to be a tool to measure and are becoming an and in themselves.

I'd much rather a broad, enjiyable curriculum. Teaching to the test, especially one as arbitrary as sats is a waste of childrens education. They will not have sats scores on their cv or be of any use to them. It's not an achievement like a grade in an instrument or a gcse or a sports badge.

It's a measure of schools (aand a bad one at that) that has unintended consequences for the children.

similarly, as a teacher, I think most homework before secondary is unnecessary (and even some of it then). If you look at overall life of the child it can even be counter productive.

Lizziewarmington · 30/03/2014 10:33

I tell them SATS are just a snapshot of what they can so on the day and are a chance to show off what they know. I also tell them Year 6 and in fact every year is about doing as well as YOU can and working hard is the most important aspect. What I really dislike is the it's all about SATS message and that after the week is over we'll do 'nice stuff' that gives a terrible message; tests are the reality of secondary and can be enjoyable if you do your best. We will continue working after SATS as the summer break causes a slide anyway and in Year 6 it's just as important with secondary months away, why would you stop, that's what is unfair on the children.

pointythings · 30/03/2014 16:12

Goodness my DD is in yr8 and she has considerably less homework than I did at that age - which I consider a good thing. The homework she does get is meaningful - revision for assessments, research to do at home, independent tasks/essays. All good preparation for GCSEs and so much better than meaningless worksheets.

TeenAndTween · 30/03/2014 18:07

Another point of view.

My DD1 did SATs 4 years ago. I think y6 was a beneficial year for her as it consolidated knowledge and filled in holes. Thus she was much better placed to start secondary on a firm footing.

However, I accept that there may well be more pressure on schools now than even 4 years ago, and that our school was not as pressured as some others.

MerlinFromCamelot · 30/03/2014 19:18

Our experience of year 6 is very different. Once the 11+ is done and dusted (early September year 6) the test if the year seems fairly relaxed, a bit like a rest before secondary school. Nobody seems is to bothered about end if year sats. The secondary schools we visited in our area all said they would do their own CAT tests early year 7.

PiqueABoo · 30/03/2014 21:12

SATs are better predictors than CATs.
SATs + CATs are better predictors than SATs alone.

If they're ignoring SATs then they've missed a trick.

Slackgardener · 30/03/2014 21:31

Mind you predictors are just that, they don't condemn you to that score - dh left primary with a fairly unremarkable report, he was a pretty ordinary student. He left his bog standard comprehensive, top of the school and strolled into Cambridge to do a physics degree.
I know so many kids who were middle of the road at aged 10 and proved themselves anything but a few years later!

Mashabell · 31/03/2014 19:37

Slackgardener,
I had the same experience with my son.
To me the UK's test obsession has always seemed insane.

HolidayCriminal
French has loads of half-hidden letters in its words, too.
Learning to spell French is quite tricky too (ou, nous, tout) but nowhere near as bad as English. But identical letters generally have identical sounds in French (no man - many, here - there) so learning to read French is vastly easier than English.

Plenty languages are not phonetic.
Many use combinations of letters for spelling a sound rather than just one letter, but no others abuse letters quite as randomly as English. This practice comes at a heavy price, including lots of testing.

NewtRipley · 31/03/2014 20:33

Slack

Hoping DS1is like this. Not Cambridge maybe, but a later developer; happier and more interested at Secondary school.

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