If you do your DCs homework (esp. art), why do you do it?

[WalkingThePlank]

We expect our children (age 7 and 5) to do their own homework. We facilitate by helping them with materials and might ask them open questions for them to consider if they want to make changes to written work but I'd say at least 95% of the work submitted is theirs.

The 5 year old has recently had a 3 week art project. He's really enjoyed doing it but as he is 5 it does look like a dogs dinner. Other mums (never the children) have been proudly bringing in their uncovered projects into school. Some have been truly amazing (jealous, moi?) and when I've asked which bit their child has done they've said things like, 'You don't think I've let her near it do you?'

So if you do their work, what do you think your child gets out of the process? What do you think the point of the homework is? Also, what do teachers think or expect from the homework?

As an aside, my mum did all of my art stuff and I won lots of competitions at primary school but I am truly hopeless at art. I don't think it taught me anything having my mum do it for me.

No I don't... As it is for them not for parents. Remember being proud of DD1 who struggled with writing and wrote a poem. She entered the competition and didn't get anything. Her classmate who won had clearly had help..?? it was a rather painful experience and not one I would wish to repeat. We have taken the decision to not do all homework it isn't marked and adds little value IMO...so we let them play and read.

I don't do DD's (very infrequent, thankfully) homework. I will, however, help her with parts that are too hard for a 7 year old - stuff like helping her decide which article to look at from a web search because she doesn't know which are reliable and I can pick one that is aimed at her level so she can read it alone and choose the facts she wants from it, or possibly explain conventions she doesn't yet know about (she was researching a famous dancer the other day and couldn't work out what the birth and death dates were). I will also offer her constructive criticism if she asks my opinion and I will give her spellings if she wants them and can't manage a dictionary search for whatever it is (like the time she wanted to write imagination but thought it started with an A). I think those things are OK to help with, though, as hopefully she is actually learning something from them. Quite honestly, if she got a three hour colouring project, much as I might love doing it myself (I bloody love colouring), I think I'd be talking to the teacher and letting her know that it was just too time-consuming.

I suspect there are quite a few teachers out there who would be very surprised to find how much homework gets done by parents. I know how many of my friends spend their Sunday evenings.

I offer the DCs constructive criticism for written work, which they are welcome to take or leave. During the three years when two of them were stuck with a really bad maths teacher I did a lot of explaining of basic algebra concepts to enable them to tackle their homework.

They occasionally got something for homework that was pure busywork such as colouring, whose only purpose was to remind them they had been in Spanish class that day (it was nearly always Spanish) and whose only effect was to keep them from getting down to work that had an actual purpose. Even if it would have taken them 10 minutes -- why?

They have also had homework that involved making dioramas in conjunction with book reports. As a parent, I think the real skill involved here is to make it look as if a 9 or 10 year old spent approximately two hours on it. Meanwhile the 9 or 10 year old can spend the time more profitably unless they like doing that sort of arty-crafty thing. Three of the DCs loved making dioramas or Little House on the Prairie log homes, representing the work of Avi in crochet or reproducing an architectural wonder of the world using cardboard, but two would rather have eaten spinach for breakfast.

When they come home with research to do, they have been asked to find library books for themselves with help from the librarian if necessary, and have had a list of online sources to use, with instructions not to do any independent online searching. For the teacher the advantage is that parents are not complaining about children bamboozled by 850,000 hits to a search term, and he or she can also see how effectively the children mine the known information and whether their finished work is lifted straight from the site.

I admire the people who sent in notes saying the homework is too difficult. When I wanted to do that with my daughters they would panic and have hysterical crying fits at the very idea. They weren't prepared to just do what they could either - they were bright enough to know if it wasn't what the task called for. Rather than face dragging them into school sobbing and wailing, I am afraid I did sometimes do bits and pieces for them, or give them too much help. I ended up very resentful toward the school, as it was clear they were simply going through the motions because they were determined to keep their status as a "beacon school".

When I was teaching in a primary I was shocked by the number of parents who did homework for their children. One memorable one was drawing a picture to go with the story they'd written up in best for the wall (aged 7). One came back with a beautiful drawn and coloured glittering dragon. It was clearly done by a talented adult artist. It was really difficult but I cut it off the child's work and allowed the child to do their own picture in class. It wasn't fair to have that work next to all the others. The mother made a complaint...it was all messy but sorted in the end. It's important to remember why your child is set homework - if it is taking 3 hours something is wrong and you need to talk to the teacher....

come in people.
There is no point doing anything other then guiding your child a bit ... (eg, why not try red there? let's try the bbc schools web site to look for that, ie just guidance )

if you do more

1. its obvious to teachers & fellow pupils. I'm a parent and a teacher. believe me... it's obvious
2. most importantly.... you are giving you child the message that they aren't good enough. That their attempts to do things aren't valued, respected, appreciated, are lacking.
3. you're stopping them learning skills.

Yep I am sure there are some teachers, sadly, who give over complicated or time consuming homework. I understand people's frustration. I do hope I don't do that, but these days I teach much older kids so less likely!!

But its far better to give your kids the chance to try to do things, with a bit of support and encouragement. If they fail a little, it doesn't matter, they have learnt a bit. next time... they will be better

we have this ridiculous expectation that everything should be 'perfect', first time. it rarely is, and the messups you make along the way are part. of learning.

DS's school use the last lesson at school for homework. I suspect that since starting this they are in a much better position to see who does the homework. It has really stressed some parents out though.

If homework is given out with any assumption that a parent is available with suggestions along the lines of 'let's try BBC' or 'red would be better there' or (ripping hair out) 'please try to remember what teacher said about these fractions' then the teacher has failed to set fair homework or explain the topic properly in class, or make it clear what is required, imo.

It would be fine to encourage children to fail if the consequences did not involve being placed in the lowest set. Pretending the only consequence for failure or getting things wrong is learning the right way is a little divorced from reality.

I've just written a note in DS2's homework book. Homework (science) was to find examples around the house of materials which have certain properties: weak, strong, stretchy etc. Fine.

And then either draw or stick in a photograph of them into tiny boxes. Not fine - DS has dyspraxia and hates drawing (completely understand as he tends to make everything look like a scribble and the boxes are so small) and if he took photos, I'd be the one sorting the uploading and printing.

So after 10 minutes of handwringing and near tears from a 9 yo we agreed he'd just write the names of the materials as king as I wrote a note to say this was my idea

Thing is when ours is marked we normally only get a tick.No teacher is going to go through 30 books and discuss problems individually.I like homework time to be useful instead of pointless so would far rather discuss and help with any issues instead of just handing it in.

I also think ensuring a good attitude and discipline with homework is important.Kids will need to learn to graft at some point.A gradual process instead of a panic in year 6 is better imvho.

Adele it's not about giving the message that kids are not good enough.

I have done my kids homework many times for them for many reasons.

1. I know they are capable- I value education but see no value in repeating tedious tasks.

1. It hardly ever gets marked.

1. My kids already spend 6 hours a day at school.

1. They like to have a life outside school , including orgainised constructive activities.

5.Two hours a night a primary level seems punitive.

1. Much of my childrens' education happens at home.

Primary school is not particulary good at certain subjects. I am a scientist and my children have loved learning about the electomagnetic spectrum and atomic particle theory from the age of 7 or so. Far more useful than a lot of the trite repetitive homework tasks that have been set.

retropear- too much homework can be counter productive though. Far from setting attitudes and discipline it can put kids off homework if given too much.

Ours don't get much,an hours worth max.

no. I might assist them with it such as helping get stuff to stick on to something if it is proving a problem but otherwise they do it themselves. luckily we don't get very much like that. other stuff I might help explain it to them but if I help with any spellings it will either be obvious (4yr old) or I would note that I had helped with x or y and rest was child's own as I think it is important. normally I would just encourage the child to do it how they thought even if it was wrong.

A week!

They're 10 and 9.

Mine don't get art/craft homework, thank goodness. Homework is usually some additional practice/reinforcement of something they've learned at school. I think this is relatively good practice, so am happy to support it, particularly as it rarely takes more than half an hour once a week.

If they're finding it particularly difficult we generally try to help them remember what they've been taught. If they've needed a lot of help to remember, we'll write a note to the teacher at the end to let them know that. If they really don't seem to know how to do it, we generally let them stop, and again write a note to explain why they haven't done it.

I'm at colouring for homework! WTF?

I negotiate a time when they will do it (both have extremely busy extra-curricular lives - DD has ended up doing a project homework in a small side room while I was doing an evening thing for my school).

And praise them when they say it's done.

UNLESS (and this happens very rarely, they have sensible schools) there is homework that says 'please work with an adult to....'

Otherwise, it's theirs.

I'm astonished that there are parents who do their children's arty competition stuff for them. I work full time in a stressful job and my focus goes on the reading and writing homework (making sure it gets done, helping them, admiring results however basic etc). DS is 5 and in Reception. How on earth do these parents find the TIME to do it for them? Even SAHMs would struggle to find the time creating easter bonnets etc (esp if they have several DC).

Not to mention all the stuff upthread about it being utterly pointless.

This art stuff fills me with fear as I am woeful at craft. To the extent that I probably won't even know what materials they need for vaguely complex creations. Found out today that I am a week late on helping my child create a windsock. No idea how to even start. Felt bad as he was on about it tonight (I hadn't even seen the email about it) and I was tired and had a load of work to do once the kids went to bed and in the end (after patient explanation that we might not be able to do it tonight) I snapped at him. Feeling awful. I hate working. Pregnant with my third and cannot wait to leave. Husband also has stressful job and worked all weekend, so I was at the end of my tether after a weekend alone with the kids and burning the midnight oil after they had gone to bed, working. I do the reading with him every night (and they insist the child reads to me every night) and the weekly written stuff and I honestly don't have time for much else.

Thinking about it, the windsock seems like one of those examples of something a child might need a hell of a lot of help with to do. Why can't it be simple stuff that they can do 70% themselves? Maybe I am just beyond crap at craft.

The thing is, at dc's school, it does get marked. It gets ticked, but also gets stars ranging from none to five. (they also get stars for good behaviour, acts of kindness etc). The school is divided into six different teams, and the highest amount of stars for each team (across the school), does mean something. Ie, standing up on the stage at the end of each term and getting loads of applause, cup for the winning team etc. So if the children don't get enough stars then they feel they are letting the side down. But its rubbish if the parents are doing the work instead, as they are not learning anything. But if they do it themselves, then a lot wouldn't get as many stars anyway. Its a lose lose situation all round.

(If, for example, they ask me to help with a particular Maths problem / English question, I write a note on it 'X found this tricky, I helped in the following ways'.)

retropear- with such minimal homework I understand your view. My kids have had 2 hours a night, every single day from the age of seven.

I was quite tempted the other night during preparations for a controlled assessment in English.
But I resisted. dd even said I was allowed to read it.

But generally I've done my GCSE's once already (well, O levels back then)
I think I'll leave this lot to her.

• Though happy to answer any questions either of them have.

I think learning is a home-school partnership.

I refused to let my parents assist with homework after asking them about science homework (how to purify water - you need boil it, not just filter it through sand as my parents told me.) I was 10 or 11 at the time. I decided if I was going to get things wrong, I could do that by myself.

I've also spent time in places where you have to collect your own water from the river, so I can also tell you that I have successfully learnt a number of ways to make sure water is potable.

I don't have a problem with showing children information related to their homework, be it online or from the library. I don't mind asking them open questions to guide their thinking. I don't mind things like helping them glue stuff, or cut things if they might cut themselves. That's all support, which is a good thing. But I don't see the point of actually doing it for them - how will they learn from that? And as for doing things just to win - that's pathetic. I'm not saying I wouldn't be jolly pleased if my child were to win, but I'd like to know it happened fairly - so I'd also be miffed if they lost to someone whose work was clearly done by a parent. But life can be like that, unfortunately.

Atthe - then I wouldn't be doing the homework for my children. I'd be hammering at the head's door with all the research on primary homework and demanding a change in the homework policy...

2 hours a night each is STUPID. Is it, by any chance, a private school, or one that 'apes' a private school? Is it valued by parents for its 'traditional attitude to education'? Do parents boast about 'it must be a good school, they have SO much homework, at St X's they only have half an hour a week, how slack and neglectful is that???'. I have to say in your position i would be doing something much more radical than simple forgery of my child's homework... and I am a teacher who sets homework...

Instead of blaming the parents who do homework for their children maybe the focus should be on why schools are setting homework.

If they could teach the whole of the curriculum well enough, homework would not be necessary.

Relying on parents to support homework just opens the door for this kind of behaviour.