whether to move DCs from local state primary to private

[whoneedssleepanyway]

I have 2 DDs at the local state primary in Reception and Year 2.

The school is OK, ranked good by Ofsted, there are definitely areas it could be better (e.g. maths not strong and was commented on by Ofsted, other issue is that whilst the teachers they have had so far have been great, there are some much weaker teachers in other years which I know from friends at the school have almost resulted in what they say was a wasted year for their DCs). When DD1 started it was our local school and the only one she would get a place in, in the area (v small catchment areas in London), private wasn't an option for us at the time, although we have always hoped we could do private secondary and have been saving. Since she has started she has loved it, we have met some really nice families and DD2 started in September and enjoys it too.

Our financial situation has now changed and we have some money for the DDs but it can only be used on their education, it would be enough to pay for private primary, secondary and university.

I am really torn as to what to do. On the one hand I want to give them the best education we can and I have worried from the start that by not going private at primary it will be harder to get a secondary place at a private school and I don't want them to have missed out on this opportunity. From everything I read it really seems as though you are at a huge disadvantage in getting a place at a private secondary school at 11 if you are coming from the state sector and we would need to tutor.

But they love the school, we have met some really nice families and I would be very sad if they moved somewhere else. The school has a lovely community feel to it and everyone knows everyone. I asked DD what she would think about going to a different school and she looked shocked and said absolutely not, but I am sure she would settle fine if she was moved.

The other thing I am not sure about is how easy it would even be to get a place somewhere now given we missed 7 plus for DD1 so we would be dependent on someone leaving and I am imagining there are waiting lists for most private schools.

Sorry this all probably sounds a bit vague but not really sure how to go about making this decision.

I think the country mice thing is what makes the most difference, though my ds is a little like this (he's still 8, but just not a self conscious child, unlike ds2 who is already v 'aware'). We live a few minutes from brand heaven, Westfield. Gilly Hicks is some spin off from Abercrombie. I'm glad I don't have teens yet.

I think if I was going to go down the private route for secondary any how then I'd move the DC now if it isn't going to cost me any money.

Just to say my DD and her mates really dont do GH, Abercrombie, Jack Wills etc...they wear New Look, Primark, Top Shop mostly.

Their life styles do vary. Yes, there are those with second homes, ponies and Range Rovers, but there are also those in less affluent environments (these things beinbg relative of course).

Everyone hands down uniform. Everyone. DD has almost nothing with her own name tag in it .

One thing OP, if you don't spend the turst fund on education, what happens to it?

Thanks all. I have done the sums, looked at what fees are now for prep what they go up to for secondary and have assumed a 5% increase every year, yes it does cover it, possibly not all of university but would cover to move them in a years time through to A levels and then a bit for uni. It is all being set up at the moment and so I don't know what happens if not used (asked DH he doesn't know).

littlebluedog I think you hit the nail on the head, I don't really want to move them but now I can feel I should at least consider it. Also we would definitely want to go private for secondary and so as everyone says only gets harder to get into these schools as they get older.

I think I need to really do my research go and look at the options and see if there is one that would suit my DDs and really feel would be much better that what we currently have. Also what is actually available and has space.

All the comments are really helpful. If we aren't now paying for private education it frees up the money we are saving each month to put towards this in the future so we would have a bit of extra cash to "keep up" if that is the right phrase. But I went to a private school on a scholarship and didn't notice being the "poor kid".

Thanks all.

OP - as a non conforming private school parent, I can assure you that you don't need oodles of cash, to buy designer clothes or go on exotic holidays in order for your children to fit in at private school. It's just not true, although I imagine some parents do buy awful designer clothes for their DCs, they would probably do it regardless of where their DC's went to school. I see it much more at the state school I work in.

My DS left a state primary at year 2 for a prep we had long liked the look of when we also came into some money. He is now at an independent senior school.

Honestly, it's the best decision we've ever made.

Diabolo: please can you tell me why (as someone in a similar situation to the OP)

Why it was one of the best decisions you ever made.

And what, as you see it, are the main differences between the state and the private school.

My main fear is severing my kids from the community we are in - they are at a great community school and it's honestly not bad at all teaching wise (and getting better) with a really good cohorts in their class. But it's just a bit shaky...

Of course .

At his state Primary, DS was one in a class of 30, there were no competitive sports, if you (me) were friends with the chair of the PTA, your child miraculously got selected for lead roles etc. The teaching was ok but all aimed very low IMO, rather than differentiated for different abilities. DS was often asked to help other children - I just didn't like that in year 2, he should have been given extension work if he'd finished the task in hand.

The straw that broke the camel's proverbial back was when his replacement year 2 teacher told me at a parents evening, that they didn't correct the children's spellings as it put too much pressure on them.

I'm not a nutter but I do know that DS needs a little pressure or he'd never bother doing anything.

So off to the Prep. He was one of 2 new boys in his class, both from state schools, several other children had switched from state too, so not at all unusual. Dedicated teachers for languages, science, proper PE of the type he loves (hockey, cricket, rugby), the chance to run, get dirty, go off curriculum if the teacher fancied it ( a science lesson one day was watching ducklings hatch in the local park), the fact that I didn't need to complete 25 different permission forms to let him to go to the park in the first place.....

All of this was new. And I loved it. And DS who had been rather sensitive and shy was suddenly confident and boisterous and getting praise and the odd prize when he did well.

His spellings were corrected, weekly spelling tests, tests in lots of other subjects too - it was the kind of old fashioned education I hoped it would be. Some people think that's awful but we loved it.

Fast forward to year 8 and DS was House Captain, in the choir, playing sport at a county level and being prepared for common entrance.

He's now in Y9 at a senior independent and loving it so much, he wants to board.

Some people might read this and think, bleurgggh, but I don't much care.

We are probably bottom 10% wealthwise, I don't "do lunch" or go to the gym and I drive a small hatchback. DS goes of some trips, but not all, nobody does them all. This has never, ever affected him and the occasional stuck up twit I have encountered hasn't bothered me too much either.

Hope that helps.

Go for it. And do it now.

Don't base your daughters education on the convenience of the school!

I was privately educated. My family are extremely bohemian (being polite here) and certainly not well off by the standards of those I went to school with.

It wasn't a problem. I had holidays with my grandmother (all the money went on fees and bohemian parents lifestyle!), while some class mate did extraordinary thing.
However not everyone I went to school with was wealthy. Far from it.

My DC are at an independent school. There is clearly a wide variety of incomes. A few people rock up in six figure cars and some in bashed up 10 year old ford focus. And plenty in between.

Don't base their education on whether you have money to fly first class long haul on holidays or drive an £80k Range Rover to "fit in".

Their education is about getting the most knowledge out of it and getting excellent grades for uni entry and work later in life.

Convenience of school run!

My problem is that the traditional prep school approach doesn't appeal. I basically want my kids to be at a highly performing state school, learning stuff (differentiated to their level) AND retaining a sense of community with their very mixed intake of friends. And they aren't.

It's a real b*gger. It seems as if the only alternative - other than moving house and hoping for a place to come up in an ideal state school - is to lump it with the private schools and live for the lengthier holidays.

I need to address some statements from earlier in the thread.

Some people have posh cars, some don't, some kids get into farm trucks or work vans at pick up.

Extra curricular activities are usually free. Lunch is usually included at prep.

Uniform was a little more expensive but not much, it was mostly the sports clothing that bumped up the cost.

There is no guarantee that a clever child "will do well anywhere". Unfortunately I am living proof of that. Of course there is no guarantee that a clever child will do well in a private school either. I'm not really sure what merrymarigold meant by her comments about private schools being good for only for average children. My experience is very different and I don't see the school league tables reflecting that either.

SN provision was excellent, but had to be paid for.

Sorry fluffy.

DSs school is of course not very mixed in socio-economic terms, although there are plenty of children with scholarships and bursaries.

The plus for me is that it is incredibly diverse in both ethnicity and religion of the pupils, while the state schools near me are not mixed at all.

It's not all about convenience of school run! There are many benefits for children of having friends locally and being a member of the broader local community.

Plus no daily car journey is good for the environment and short journeys are much easier when there is snow or other bad weather. Also if, like the OP, you have more than one child you can find yourself going back and forwards if one has an after school club but another doesn't. This is a pain if the journey is longish.

Just to add...

When my eldest dd was littler, I had the same dilemma. I loved her state primary, and she loved it and would have hated moving (she's that kind of child). But the local secondary state school was dire, and I worried about her getting into private schools at 11+ - we are in SW London

Now she's in Y5, still thriving at her state primary (also Good, with outstanding features) and the local state secondary has improved immeasurably - I know she'd do well there. But she has also got a very good chance of getting into the local private schools, with a minimum of tutoring - and I found a very lovely tutor, with experience, who backs that up.

Its very, very hard to make these decisions but I found I could only decide on what I KNEW was best for dd in the moment, rather than gamble on what MIGHT be best for her in the future. And we still have the education money should we need it - or rather, should she need it - in the future.

Good luck deciding

My advice, be really realistic about what you can afford, two kids at a prep in London is around £16k per annum and that not taking into account all the peripheral ancillary costs, trips in y3 £300-500.

Uniform, growth spurts, summer and winter, loss and damage - it all mounts up.

Transport to and from school, especially if its further than you would normally travel/walk.

Before and after school care (especially if your both working).

This is the breakdown for last year year 1 & year 3.

Basic school fee costs £16500
Uniform costs (this also includes a change in uniform style mid year). Coats, hats, scarves, ties, blouses, tabbards, summer dress, socks, tights, trainers, plimpsoles, Jogging top and bottoms, netball skirt, swiming costume, rucksacks, book bags, gym bags, swimming bags, Jumpers and a few other bits and bobs. £575.

Additional stuff for classroom Dictionary, English to French dictionary, English to Spanish dictionary, pencils, colouring pencils, glue sticks aprons (art & cookery) £200

breakfast club and after school club £900

Half term and school holiday clubs £2500

year 3 week away trip £450

trips to zoos, museums, galleries and theatre £150.

There is probably a lot else I've forgotten. Also this is year on year plus inflation for the next n number of years

i honestly think you will meet other nice families wherever you move them too, and they will merely expand their circle of friends.

You have the utter luxury of buying the best education you can for your child they will make new friends and friends at private will see the child in the same uniform and wont be quizzing them on the parents income as to whether to make friends with them or not! If you like someone you like them you do not care what car they get dropped off in.

I know too many peoples who feel thier lives were blighted by not being allowed to go for opportunities that were opened up to them, for various reasons the children were stopped. As adults they are bitter and do not feel their potential has been reached and its a bitter pill knowing there might have been a better outcome had they had access to the better education.

PP makes a good point. DH is forever resentful that his parents decided against sending him to a private school when they had the chance because they didn't want to take him away from his friends, didn't think he/they would fit in, etc. He did Ok, but cites the poverty of expectation as the biggest negative to his comprehensive education.

This is a 'how long is a piece of string' question. But can a bit of good tutoring really make up for the failings of a school? How far behind would a kid be from an average primary trying to get into a state?

I'm trying to choose between maths Kumon at Y3 plus a bit of homework practice (no one seems to have taught the children how to do joined up or how to form the letters in the right way) and a prep that will do it for me.

sorry trying to get into a private school.

I ask as I did the 7plus selective secondary entrance in London straight from a state primary, totally unprepared and failed every single one. I couldn't even do joined up, had never done an exam, didn't have a clue what it was about.

AAAAARgh. School run typing.

I went to a state primary that was not rigorous in any way and without preparation failed every single seven plus London selective school exam.
I finally got into a selective secondary on potential alone (they were explicit about this: I failed the exams).
I had no tutoring, but to be fair, tutoring would have been no use as I was at a school that valued free expression at the expense of any kind of traditional learning.
I fear asking the same things of my kids, but I'm hoping that if I started slowly and early with tutoring I could basically parallel teach them up to scratch - without sending them to a prep school, which would do the same, but doesn't sound much fun...

LOL at "a school that valued free expression at the expense of any kind of traditional learning."

I went to one of those - except that because it was an independent one the school reacted to parents' panic and we all got a crash course in writing neatly just in time for assorted scholarship exams. I learned nothing (literally - all of the content I had done long since) during my first year in secondary school except how to write within the lines and take exams.

Prep schools can be fun, though but possibly not the uber competitive London ones with silly stripy blazers [gross generalisation]

Fluffy, I think schools have improved hugely since your time. I went to a similar school to yours, so I understand where you're coming from. But both my dcs passed the 7+ without tutoring from a "good" state primary - the teaching there is very impressive imo (at the state), nothing like the shambles I endured. PM me if you'd like to know a bit more.

This article may be helpful??

www.isbi.com/articles/article.asp?title=why-pay-to-send-your-child-to-school-&articleid=51

re article: Not really helpful, as the main determining factor here is probably class and parental income rather than the school itself.