Can i ask what level your yr 5 child is at maths?

[plum100]

As im a bit worried.

Dd was a 3a at both parents evenings - nov and march in yr 4. She is now in yr 5 and is still a 3a.

My worry is she has not progressed at all in year. Dh says he thinks the jumps between levels at this age are quite big.

The guide says she should
Move up a level every two years so he could be right.

Its says ahe should be a 3a/4c by the end of this year - thats the average apparently - but there are loads of children in her class working a much higher than that.

Can i ask what your views are ? Thanks

We are in the same boat. Told by school that level 3 is a big level and vital to get secure. Once secure they should move quickly through level 4. If they 'tick box' through level 3 then kids struggle mid level 4. Hope they are right as lack of progress stressful.

Thank ypu beach.

I went in twice last yr to see her tutor who said she is exactly where she should be. I jist worry that because she is quiet and gets on with things that she is being overlooked and one day someone will say - her primary teachers got in wrong - she is at a lower level.

It is so stressful. Amd what made me really sad is that dd found out she was a 3 a a few weeka ago bit didnt want to tell me as she thought i would be cross and ahe got all upset about it and cried:((((

My yr 5 DD was 3c at the end of yr 2 and 3a at the end of yr 4. She seems to have been level 3 forever! Won't find out yr 5 levels until the end of the year. Her year 4 teacher was confident she would be 4b by the end of year 5 and 5c by end of year 6. Perhaps your DD will be similar?

I got told DD was working towards a 3a in October, however she has since moved schools and they've assesed her as a level 5 and she's in the top set and she's bringing much harder work home.

Blimey Breezy thats a massive jump ! Thats what im worried about when dd goes to secondary school - only the jump in the wrong direction

I've been in too. Repeatedly told they expect her to 'fly' in year six. Find it hard to believe and worry a lot.

My dd stalled at level 3 maths for what felt like an eternity and then seemed to bypass level 4 altogether

It is important that they consolidate their knowledge.

Have you got a parent's evening coming up where you can discuss it?

With maths in particular its not unusual to have a cohort above the average so try not to worry what others in the year group are doing

17 - that's what I'm hoping for!

I'd agree with discussing it at a parents' eve. DD has just moved to middle school where she's been assessed as a 5c - but apart from knowing she was a level 3 in Year 2, I don't know what she was between then and now! Am not keen on all this reliance on levels, but it is what it is, I suppose.

My DS started year 5 in level 3a and finished in level 5 ( I did tutored hi, because he was not progressing). In year 6 he got a level 6.

Based on my experience, I would start getting more involved with what exactly is she learning in class. Find out from her and the teacher what topics are they covering and at what level. It could be she is encountering difficulties mastering just one or two of the topics needed to go to a further level, or it could be that the class isn't working at a high level and therefore she isn't being taught at the right level.

I would start by buying bond books for her age and find out if she can do the L4 paper. If not, which areas is she struggling with? A tutor could do this of course, but if you want to save money that's what I did.

Our personal experience was similar but unfortunately I found out that it wasn't due to DD1 not absorbing topics or having difficulties, rather that she wasn't being taught. She was the same level from May Y2 to beg of Y4 when we moved her schools. She had made no progress at all, however when she moved school she progressed about 2 levels in one term as she was actively being taught. My gut feeling was right about it as I knew she was bright and when I taught her stuff at home she picked it up quickly, but her old school would never admit that's what was going on. I also found out lots and lots of children in her class were being tutored extensively, both formally with a tutor or informally at home. I only found out as my DH met someone at the pub who is a tutor in a neighbouring town and he told DH in a drunken moment that he sees a large number of children from DD's old class and also a couple of DD's friends spontaneously told us about their parents doing bond books/topics with them.

Hope that helped a bit...

Expected progress is from 2b to 4b between Y2 and Y6. That means they would expect 1.5 sublevels progress every year (= 3 sublevels = 1 level every two years).

I would get a meeting with the teacher to find out why your DD hasn't progressed and what the teacher is doing about it. (I don't think it matters that she is performing at expected levels - if she was 3a at the start of last year, that was above average, so they have let her slip back.)

Alternatively, BBC bitesize maths is great fun with lots of games to cover key learning topics.

My son started Yr 5 on 2a and is now predicted a 3a at the end of this year and he has found maths a huge, huge struggle. The school has done a lot of very intensive work with him to get him to this level. He's been on an IEP for maths since Yr 3.

Its hard for their self confidence when they know they are behind with a subject isn't it. I'll hold onto your example Breezy in the hope my DS makes a massive leap one day!!

When you get to that parents evening, perhaps you could ask his teacher how you could support his learning at home to help him consolidate and embed knowledge. When he has a firm foundation he will progress.

Yes - we get a lot of work to do at home with DS to help such as maths games, links to websites etc.. Our school also run parent sessions to show us the methods they use as things have changed a lot since we were taught maths at school if you are an old fart like me that is!

Interesting thread for me as was in similar position. I have to say that alarm bells ring whenever I hear from a teacher "she's exactly where she's supposed to be". It's pigeonholing students to narrow "ability" bands (which isn't about ability but about what they have achieved thus far) rather than what they can potentially achieve. I realise that teachers have up to 30 children at various stages of learning and it may not be possible to assess a child's potential. Which is why it's usually up to the parents to consolidate maths skills at home.

About a year ago I was really shocked at how bad DD's basic numeracy was and we had to do a lot of work at home to bring her skills up to speed. I wonder if perhaps your DD has a similar issue? Does she have to think hard about her times tables and/or number bonds? Or does she have the answer right away?

Whatever else, please don't be fobbed off, and don't wait until the end of the school year.

Even if it's a big leap out of level 3, you would expect some improvement in what is over a year.
It's meant to be a whole level every 2 years (I think) so you should be looking at at least 1 sublevel I would think in that time, preferably towards 2.

Looking at dd2 (who is top set in a big school, good at maths) she scored:
Year 3: 4c
Year 4: 4a
Year 5: Currently 5b/c

So she's been consistantly going up 2 sublevels each year, and this is not uncommon in her set, probably around half her set are similar.

I would go and talk to the teacher about lack of progress. It may be lack of confidence holding her back, or perhaps there's something she's struggling with. If the teacher says thngs like she was at the bottom of 3a and is now the top, then that's still not really acceptable progress as they would expect to have gone up more than one sublevel in the time.

Hi plum:

I think the question rather than worrying about levels is:

Does your DC know all times tables x0 - x12?

Can your DC work out inverse multiplication facts - so 36 divided by 9 is what?

For Y4 - it's absolutely crucial they're learning these facts - and it underpins a lot of their maths from this point onwards.

for practice (and free):

Math champs: www.mathschamps.co.uk/#home - times tables are unfortunately spread across age groups 5-7/ 7-9/ 9 - 11 - which can be upsetting if you're a bit behind schedule - but the games are really fun & great practice.

Multiplication.com: www.multiplication.com/games/all-games - takes some hunting to find what you may need to work on - but my girls really enjoy these.

Try the multiplication/ division links on Woodland Junior School Maths Zone: resources.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/maths/

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Old fashioned practice/ away from computer:

Get a deck of 52 cards. Ace = 1, 2-9 cards are as numbered. Jack = 10/ Queen = 11 and King = 12.

Shuffle deck thoroughly.

Chose a times table to practice. Let's say x4. Write this down on a piece of paper - to just remind you what you're doing. Set deck face down next to paper.

Flip card - say it's a 7 - first person to say '28' (which is 4 x 7) wins the card.

The overall winner is the one with most cards at the end of the game.

Start off by letting them win a bit - but then go for it. This can be a lot of fun & quite fast & furious. We spice it up by saying the overall winner gets the candy bar, or chooses what to watch on tv (DH gets very interested in winning to avoid Dancing on Ice).

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once the times tables are learned (but maybe a bit shaky) for speed - a great game to play is Timez Attack. There's a free version with two platforms - castle or dungeon - and you're cast as a little boy or girl ogre who runs through the castle/ dungeon solving multiplication problems. This is done by both multiple additions - so 4 x 5 is shown and then you count 5 - 10 - 15 - 20 and then you solve a traditional vertical multiplication problem. link here: www.bigbrainz.com/ - they also have a division version (inverse multiplication facts - like 28 divided by 4 = ?) which may also be useful (we haven't started that - came out after DD1 needed it and DD2 isn't quite there yet - still 8 and finds ogres a bit stressful).

HTH

Thank you all so much for your replies.

Pastsellbydate - Yes she knows all times tables - can recall them very quickly , and uses them for inverse. Her calculations when written straighforward are easy for her. I think she struggles with written problems when he has to figure out what the sum actually is if that makes sense.

Soveryupset - what is a bond book?

On one hand i want to trust that the teachers are dping the best for her but on the other im so worried that if i just leave her to get on with it then i am letting her down if she doesnt understand it.

DD 3 is in Y5 and a 4A for math (but a 2A for reading shakes head)

DS was a 5B in Y5 (ended Primary with a level 6 so a bit unusual)

DD1 & 2 both ended Y5 on 4B both rather average in manner :) ( i think thats a good thing)

plum

it sounds like your DD is very sound - so my advice would be to try stretching her.

If you haven't visited it - have a look at the maths problems on the Cambridge University NRICH maths website: nrich.maths.org/frontpage

Your DC will be 'upper primary'.

There are all sorts of problems which really get those brain cells working full-time. They either have an interactive game where you can explore things and see how it works - or they have traditional problems. With traditional problems you get 3 options: the problem, 'getting started' - so a hint to get you thinking through how to solve the problem and 'the answer'.

Have an explore - these will really get her applying her number skills to challenging (often real stinkers) of problems and stretching her understanding of numbers.

HTH

Sorry they are books you can get from WHSMITHs - you can get different sorts, like LETTS or BOND or others and they all help revise. Most give you levels so you can work through the papers with them and see what they need to learn/reinforce..

We only get to know levels at the end of year, DD was 4b at end of Y4, but this year seems to be really struggling.

DS was a 4a in maths at the end of y5 and got a L6 at the ed of Y6.
DD is about a 4b in Y5 now, I think.

Great thanks i will hVe a look T that site xx