Writing and phonics

[Notcontent]

Background is that I am a bit annoyed at dd's teacher who seemed to suggest that dd's spelling is not great because she needs to improve her knowledge of phonics.

Dd is 7 and her reading is great, as acknowledged by her teacher, but her writing is not as good as her reading. Before Christmas at meeting teacher said that her spelling is letting her down and gave me a sheet with the phonics sounds to practice with dd. But the fact is that there are so many exceptions to English spelling that a lot of it is just memory work. I think that needs to be acknowledged. We have been doing lots of writing at home and I think her spelling is pretty good actually.

I do agree that phonics helps with reading, and helps a bit with spelling, but that's not the whole story, is it?

Rite.

[hilarity]

Marsha's 'argument' is that spelling should be changed to make reading and writing easier. Trouble is, she's forgotten to factor in accents. How would you respell scon/scone?

@Jaffa
I wouldn't bother to read her posts if they make you cross; she says the same thing over and over again, anyway. Once you've read one or two you've read them all

here is an example of Masha's spelling reform. It makes my stomach churn trying to read English written in this way. I really hope it never changes, I don't think I'd ever be able to spell again!

Oh I know maizieD
She was on Midweek Radio 4 once and got a hard time from LP but her hide is very thick and she seems to be able to take it all.

Or should that be ^wot evva>

I think the key things you need if you want to change a spelling system are:

1. a generally illiterate population so nobody knows what you are doing.
2. the ability to chop off people's heads if they disagree with you.

And it wouldn't even be down to us in the end - to make such drastic changes the US would have to agree too - they have a much bigger military than we do! Don't Canada and Aberdeen both say 'aboot' for 'about' - would they form an alliance?

I will never agree to loose the h on herb!

Sorry lose!

luse, actually.

Oh my god! They'll make us rhyme do, dew and due!

well I had a pupil who wrote put as poot.
I blame his mother- why didn't she talk properly :)

OMG! And Canadians say 'mairy' and 'Hairy' for 'marry' and 'Harry'

Hairy Potter doesn't have quite the same ring.

(Apologies if any non-Brits are offended by the turn this thread has taken)

Yeah, but do you know how Kiwis say six?

I can guess.

I also swear that I hear a Kiwi say 'duck' with an /i/ sound where the /u/ usually is...(she was talking about a children's book at the time)

Coming back to the OP's concluding statements and question,
I do agree that phonics helps with reading, and helps a bit with spelling
-So do i.
but that's not the whole story, is it?

• Absolutely not!

U can choose to lose those silly notions with a small dose of reality:
a-e: plate – wait, weight, straight, great, table dahlia, fete
-ain: rain – lane, vein, reign, champagne
-ay: play – they, weigh, ballet, cafe, matinee

air: care – hair, bear, aerial, their, there, questionnaire
au: sauce – caught, bought, always, crawl, tall,

The above show u different spellings for just three sounds, and they are not even the most irregular.

Our children are taught exclusively with linguistic phonics (SP) and after 2 terms of instruction no child has a spelling age below their chronological age - unlike masha I actually teach children to read and write and I find it works.

sounds-write.co.uk/docs/soundswrite_report_on_data_collection_2008.pdf

you might be interested in this data on spelling (and reading) collated by an Educational Psychologist

Mind boggles then at the Canadians- Hairy Mairy (s)

masha lovely to see you posting that table of how to make a long a sound.

That's exactly the way I work when teaching children with SpLDs.

However, you miss the point really because ei and eig are sounds in their own right- eg neighbour.

Same applies to -aught, -ough, -aw, and -all.

au- This is not an 'a' sound just because the first letter is 'a'- it's an 'or' sound. all the examples you give are different ways to make an 'or' sound.

I wish you could get your head round sound/symbol relationships and stop thinking it's about how the letters look.

Best way to get round sound
Is found a sound pound
With a swish fish dish
If that's your wish

I don't get what you are saying with that ,column?

it's just a rhyme with ou words. it's not a mnemonic for example

Because you don't get what I say
You're failing Masha with eigh
You can tell her for now
That ough rhymes with cow
She won't remember next day

Hmmm... better stick to the day job Column and leave the poetry to others :)

Well, what's your point, then? I think you were saying that eig was a sound in its own right, and using neighbour as an example of it. But the sound you're referring to is eigh, as in eigh-t

So, maybe it's not masha who has to get her head around sound...