DD in bottoms sets and her self esteem is sliding down

[PollyPutTheKettle]

That's it really. DD aged 8 and in year 3 has gone from the top sets in year one to the bottom set for Maths and second to bottom set for Literacy now. I have never focussed on sets and instead told her to just concentrate on what she is doing etc. However, she is very aware of these sets and has tonight said she is no good at literacy and maths as she is in the bottom sets. It's now becoming a self perpetuating prophecy.

I have had a look at this terms curriculum and made a plan of work to do at home to support her and spoken to her about how being in the top set is not the be all and end all, it can change, and pointed out things she is good at (gymnastics)).

Is there anything else I can do?

" Top set", "bottom set" ..

When DD or DS is in top set its ok. When in bottom set, its a problem.

Please realise that last yr some of the children in bottom set, did not probably like to be there either. They may have been offered more support at home, or its simply their turn to have a peak, as others plateau.

Children do not progress in a linear fashion - plateau etc. It is important to not only appreciate this as a parent, but to show this understanding when DD or DS gives you news about movement up down or sideways.

Some parents may have put in extra work to support their bottom set children, and perhaps your child over performed last year and will catch up - has she actually dropped, or been overtaken.

There is no right to be in any set, and the teacher has to move children around into groups that will support their progress better, not only based on academic ability, but social skills for interaction etc.

Question to all those parents with children in top set.

What are you doing to do to keep them there?

Question to all those parents with children in bottom set.
What are you doing to support them?

I think what is important is to be aware of what they are actually doing - know their strengths and weaknesses, and think about real life opportunities to inform and extend their knowledge.

Children can sense your excitement when they tell you they are in the top set - equally disapointment when in bottom set, and we can push this anxiety by suddenly obsessing about their work more than before.

Doing nothing now because your child is doing great is a mistake, challenge them with something that forces them to struggle a little, because they will struggle at some point. Learning to deal with this adversity early can reap rewards.

I asked my DD in foundation to spell a word - She tried and eventually said - I cant spell that word yet

Wizard19 - can I just ask if you're a parent or a teacher - as you did appear to be implying you were a parent here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/a2008199-Likely-NC-level-for-these-questions-please - but now seem to be saying it like you're a teacher.

Anyway - perhaps I'm reading it wrong - but I think the OP (pollyputthekettleon) wasn't demanding her DC was on top table - but was saying being moved down from top table was denting her DC's confidence, making the kid feel they were 'no good' at maths/ reading/ etc... and they were worried this was becoming something of a self-fulfilling prophecy (i.e. the DC was feeling labelled as 'not very good', was giving up & therefore securing that label of 'not very good').

I do take the point you are making that a parent can push too hard for their child academically - but as a parent of a child unable to subtract at all (even 1 from 10) at age 7 - I can assure you that I took doing more work at home very much as a necessity - since having discussed with the school whether they were planning on doing more or could advise what we should do (at the point we knew DD1 scored NC L1 on maths) we were told every child learns maths at 'their own speed' and that they do not recommend doing any extra work at home.

Sometimes schools fail children - not just parents.

My daughter is in the bottom (of two sets) for maths and literacy but knows from the support and extra work she does at home, that she is one of the higher 'performers' within those groups. I think this better for her confidence than being at the lower end of the other group.

However, at my daughter's school there is no movement between sets which seems odd. I've got a meeting with her class teacher soon about some negative comments I dared to put in the school survey so may ask why that is so.

Hi PastSellByDate

I am a parent who teaches my 2 DD. Had a shock when told that my DD was being put on SEN register after an assessment. I did not agree with the assessment, nor did others who know my child.

Got her off register within the month - youngest in class, now in yr2 teacher said just 2 days ago, that entering her for Level 3 test.

I have had to find ways of supporting her learning style - and we have got there through quality of work and resources I have made at home, not quantity.

*we were told every child learns maths at 'their own speed' and that they do not recommend doing any extra work at home.

Sometimes schools fail children - not just parents.*

I think no one knows your child better than you, and the schools do not explore all ways of teaching. It means some of the peaks and troughs through school, can be down to slightly different teachers and their teaching style either supporting or hindering you DD/DS.

I have had mixed feedback when teachers recognise that my DD has had some input, sometimes unconventional, at home.

My view is that if I can introduce material in a way that is most accessible to my child, it does not hinder them when the same material is presented differently - just enriches and extends their understanding.

It is hard to keep children's self esteem up when they are aware that they are behind others. In my class, I make a specific point of praising effort, but also of finding the areas where the child does have strengths (there is ALWAYS something they are very good at) and often reminding them of it,and celebrating that talent. Self esteem shouldn't purely be based on academic achievement and children should always know that other skills are just as valuable.

Yep - our solution was to ignore the school and do our own thing (mathsfactor) at home.

We've never looked back.

My DD (older) is not one of life's academics, gets down about test scores and constantly compares herself to her (very bright) friends. My mantra is that we can only do our best and that if she can honestly say that she has done her very best then she should take pleasure from that and if that means a C instead of an A or whatever then that is what it is, not everyone can be academically clever, she has various other skills that her friends do not share etc etc etc. It gets repeated ad nauseam. It breaks my heart that this gets her down, but I'm afraid the reality is that she isn't that bright! It's finding a way to explain and console without actually saying that which is difficult....

For maths try Khan Academy. It is excellent for teaching, it's free and it will automatically set what would be best to learn next. Maths is, to a large extent, a matter of practice to build skills.

richmal:

agree Khan academy is great (and free folks) but starts from US Grade 3 (=UK Year 4) level - so may not be ideal for a child who is struggling to count to 100, add numbers to 20, subtract numbers to 20, etc... - early maths skills

in which case

I personally would recommend mathsfactor - but others here have also praised maths whizz/ mathletics & komodo maths.

HTH

Find a school that doesn't set. Does so much harm and research say it doesn't aid progress. It's illegal in Finland!

Whoops feel strongly about this ... Research says

My dc2 recently changed to a school that doesn’t do sets. Myself and dc now are a lot more relaxed. Now I only need to make sure that dc is keeping up with the nc levels and progressing accordingly. Now we both can enjoy school. While in the previous school we were obsessed about which set dc was in and then which table dc was at. My dc used to often ask me “Mummy, can you ask my teacher to find out which set I am in because I want to work to the top set…………….. I think I am at the top table in my set……………..” I used to feel heart breaking if I have to my dc that “It may be the bottom set. But it doesn’t matter as long as you’re progressing ……….. I love you just as much regardless…………..….”
I am not competitive by nature however I was anxious about how people may see my dc. Also how these sets thing will affect a child’s self esteem etc. In general we associate top set = clever, middle set = not so clever and bottom set = not clever.
Sometimes I wonder if I am the only one feeling this way!

Lizziegeorge is right - the current research is showing that setting or streaming has very little educational benefit, and by reading these posts it appears that the main effect it has is damaging self esteem.
Children can be good at or struggle with all sorts of areas within subjects.
In my class I have no groups, but I differentiate the work. The children choose (with gentle guidance from me!) which best suits their understanding for that particular lesson.
Some children who are fantastic at number, for example, are not so good at shape, so work at the level they need. All children have strengths and weaknesses.
This is called Assessment for Learning. I thought it was becoming common practice. Obviously not

I would tell the teacher that she is feeling bad about where she has been placed. And then lots of praise for effort. It's shit but you can make it better.

Even in reading many MN threads alone almost everyday you can sense how anxious and preoccupied children and parents are re going up and down between sets and tables. Lower, upper ability sets and then lower, upper ability tables within each set. Would any adults like to be placed under that kind of environment everyday and have no control of it. Common sense please!