DD reading books off own back, Spiderwick, lemoney skinicket, dick king...what reading level should she be...

[rainraingoAWAYNEVERCOMEBACK]

I know its not comparable, teachers have reasons for keeping school levels, low and so on, I was just asking out of sheer interest, if anyone elses child was picking up books because they have got into reading...and what their corresponding ORT book was. My DD is year one, level 6.

Purely out of interest, I used to get worked up about ORT levels but not now.

And it has to be said, there's a lot you don't know and will continue not to know if you don't talk to your child's school. Other schools may finish at level 11 or level 14, but what YOU need to know is what YOUR child's school does. So sorry to have to state the obvious, but it does appear to need to be spelt out to you.

LittleMiss

Our school tend to have written in the children's reading diaries what their current target is - whether that is recognising and using full stops properly, or more expression in their reading etc

Yes we have that too, the last one was expression this was a while ago and since then they have noted the expression. We also get notes to do comprehension but when I ask her questions about the story its obvious to me she has grasped it. I am writing in the reading book the other books she is reading. She is one of the older ones in her class if not the eldest and will be 7 this year.

Your detailed comprehension example is extremely useful, yes.

Expression and comprehension can be "how long is a piece of string?" tasks if one is not careful.

The answer to when is progress going to be satisfactory? can be: Oh, after a bit more expression or comprehension ad infinitum.

I also meant to add that using other DCs school reading levels is not a great way to check your DDs level because schools do get the level wrong. I mean if you were asked "what level was your DC when they started reading LS?" you'd have to say ORT level 6. But clearly LS is not equivalent to ORT level 6.

I think the best way to check your DDs level is to check out the Oxford Owl website where there are lots of free ORT ebooks that go all the way to level 16 (aimed at children in year 6, at NC level 4 or possibly 5 I think).

These are some excerpts (with periods where I've excluded text for speed) from a Ginn Pocket Read levelled NC 3b (year 4?):

From early morning, heavy showers moved across the farmland. A westerly wind forced the rain into every nook and cranny. The ground had soaked up its fill of water and was now gathering puddles. The hedgerows dripped and dripped.

In the field under a bush, crouched Tara the Ditch Cat..... The ditch was her home now, but at one time she'd had a much better life.....

Tara looked out as the farmer turned his red tractor at the head of the field and memories stirred inside her. She remembered a cosy warm basket by a gas fire......

However, all that changed when a strange man came to live in the house..... Late one evening, Tara was taken out of the house. She found herself in the back seat of a car, being driven out of the city and along country roads.....

After a few seconds, Tara finally realised he was waiting for her to get out.... The car sped quickly off in the direction of the city.... Tara was a city cat, a house cat, a basket cat unused to being alone in the night.

In terms of decoding this is really quite simple. However apart from the more obvious questions to check a DCs understanding of the terms westerly winds, nook and cranny & head of the field, there is the opportunity to ask about the phrase "the ground had soaked up its fill of water" and why that leads to puddles forming.

Finally the question "why did the tractor stir Tara's memories?" is a really good example of an inferential question where the answer is not directly stated, but can nevertheless be gleaned from other information in the text.

It's these sorts of opportunities that make this text a 3b - certainly not the decidability which I'm sure your DD would manage without thinking twice.

tired

I missed your other post she already has a love of reading and isn't that the best thing ever

Yes! I am thrilled. Thrilled beyond belief. Its funny because my DH and I had quite an argument before xmas about getting her a Hudl....and I was against it because I said I really want her to enjoy books first...and pick them up for pleasure before she gets stuck on computer games. I said to him, as a parent one thing I hope she will develop is a love of reading and if she does I will have passed at least one thing. Just before xmas she was moaning at me for getting her all these books and now she is devouring them, its all very new....

I am going to ask her about those words tomorrow, she has always been noted for having a good vocab. She is has finished book 3 of LS today and has switched back to book 5 of Spiderwick. For the time being I am going to try and get her to veer away from LS until I can read them first, as they may get darker like HP.

We had our very first trip to charity shops today to look for books. I was able to pick up some Mallory Towers and Famous 5.

I agree with 5 children and IT, I also tried that and thought too much.

When she reads the schools books its at break neck speed. I didn't know there was an end in sight with ORT until today and someone mentioned their school stops at 14. I don't know why I just thought they went on and on until....end of primary . Biff and Chip in the old folks home with their magic zimmer frame....

When the teacher hears her read they move her up a level, however her writing in terms of sentences isn't great, so I suspect whilst they know she can read more ( she has told the teacher herself) and I write it in the book...they want her writing to catch up? Someone else said this and also someone said they don't want children to be Free readers in year 1? .

I mean if you were asked "what level was your DC when they started reading LS?" you'd have to say ORT level 6. But clearly LS is not equivalent to ORT level 6

Now I know that yes, I had no idea before. Its literally all happened in a few weeks.

I am going to look at this Oxford Owl website.

I do not know what 3c ect is. She is not marked like that yet, she gets team points.

Thank you so much though for your post, I have a real problem in processing information in a particular way and I am trying to find out how things work and so on....none of it makes sense to me.

My last parents evening she was in a very different place to where she is now and I had a screaming baby on my lap, meeting a new teacher, totally stressed out...trying to understand the jargon phrases...ask questions and so on, in a haze of tiredness!

Rainrain, i used to get worked up about reading levels, DS is same age as your dd and reading spiderwick, diary of a wimpy kid books, etc. Before christmas he was on ort 7, then he went to ort 6 and now he has had ort 5 books sent home. I have taken the advice of people on MN and decided to ignore the school reading scheme as it seems the more able reader he becomes the lower his levels become. His comprehension is very good, he gets most of the humour in the wimpy kid books and he understands most of the story in spiderwick, though needs some of the more difficult words explained. I do believe the reading levels are more for teacher convenience rather than individual ability at his school.

I would speak to school about allowing her to skip a few stages. The ORT books in our school are fairly old, but they don't all have Biff and Chip, they move on to general fiction/non ficton topics after about stage 8/9.

Earlier on in the school year DD was getting school books (not ORT, Biff etc only go up to stage 9 in my DC school but PM readers) and refusing to read them when she got home.

So we did as others on this thread have said and ignored them and she read Roald Dahl etc instead and wrote that in her reading diary.

Just before Xmas her teacher saw sense and has stopped school books (they only go to stage 11 anyway) and as DD hates the "free reader" choice in the infant building (ie pants) I provide her books. However, in order to come off scheme books it is not just a question of having finished the last level (stage 11 in my DC school). There is a list of criteria that have to be ticked off (may not be the same in other schools) which include NC Level 3(C) and a child being able to brouse the blurb on the back of a book to make their choice and say why they have chosen it (ie not because it has a pink cover!)

Hi, rainrain. It's a shame we started off on the wrong foot and irritated each other so much.

Fwiw, I think it's fantastic that you are enjoying encouraging your dd's reading so much. It really is a wonderful feeling when you realise your child is now old enough to share and enjoy books that you either enjoyed yourself as a child, or that are interesting enough to capture your imagination now, as an adult, when you share them with him or her. It really doesn't matter what official reading level your child is on when it comes to reading for pleasure - it's either pleasurable or it isn't, and even if some of it goes over a child's head, a lot of it sinks in, and the more interesting and sophisticated the language and ideas, and the more varied the books chosen, then the more that there is to sink in.

No homework at primary school is compulsory. Your dd won't be punished and you won't be labelled a problem mother for not reading ORT books at home, if they are doing nothing for you and eating into shared time that you think could be spent more positively reading other books. Provided you are reading with your dd at home and the school knows that, the school should be very happy. You might find, though, if the school wants to stick with the reading scheme, that the ORT books do get more interesting later on (when they are at a more appropriate level for your dd's reading ability) and you object a bit less to them. Biff & Chip certainly disappear and you start getting a variety of short stories, instead, followed by some factual texts. I wouldn't go so far as to say they are as enjoyable as a good self-chosen free-reading book, but they do make checking how well a child has understood an entire text a lot easier than is the case with a long chapter book which the teacher might not know very well themselves. I can see why teachers, therefore, might want to keep using them for longer than parents do!

Rain, just to add that I understand about processing information differently. For me this means masses of research as I get comfort from understanding how things are supposed to work and need to read the same info said in different ways to feel sure I've really understood!

If you google National Curriculum (NC) levels by year, you will be able to start understanding how the the levels work. Your school may not be sharing them with you, however your DDs teacher will be assessing her by using the criteria for the levels (set out in detail in APP grids). This is due to change come this September when there are no longer supposed to be levels. However schools will still have to be able to assess DCs and I suspect many will stick to levels, albeit revised ones.

You may not need this info now, but you do have a right to know it, although some (though by no means all) schools act like DCs levels are secret info kept in locked Fort Knox like vaults .

I have found MN a great place to increase my understanding as there are some lovely teachers and knowledgable parents with valuable insights.

Biff and Chip quietly disappear at about level 9-10 ish, to be replaced by a bigger variety of stories and factual texts that are as likely to appear in normal paperback form as in the graded ORT reader form. From then on it doesn't really matter (within reason) what they read as long as they read plenty.

I expect the reason they haven't moved her up is purely down to how she responds on class during discussion, or literacy lessons generally etc. my dd was reading stage 13 in year 2 and on her reading sats, scored the same grade as her friends on stage 8-9. I questioned this as she's my first so I was probably a bit pfb but the teacher explained that reading and understanding are completely different and that even though I felt she could read very well, her understanding was lagging behind(not of the plot as that's usually straight forward).

Now she is still on stage 14 but these stories have several chapters and each book comes with a list of 7-8 questions for the child to discuss and answer at the end of the week to check understanding and none of them refer to plot.

It's more things like creating mood, how does x feel here or what happens in chapter 3 that affect x behaviour. Which words show this? List alternative word with similar meanings? Or which word conveys that a person glided into the room? How do you feel about x at the end? What would have been a better ending? Etc etc

I expect they know her reading is good but are testing literacy in general.

I agree rabbit about small chapter books, I find I get far more from dd when she reads the schools chapter books, than the roald Dahl books so I see why schools use them. The roald Dahl chapters are too long to break things down etc

Jamtoast - out of interest which scheme is it that has these questions - is it stage 14 of ORT, or a different scheme?

Jamtoast - out of interest which scheme is it that has these questions - is this level 14 of ORT or another scheme altogether?

Hi they are ort I think (but not biff and chip?) but sorry I may have explained it wrong! the questions are not printed in the book, they are simply placed in the book by the teacher. Im only mentioning them purely to explain what the teacher may be looking at in terms of comprehension. I find they them useful as dd will read it fluently but gives some really odd answers to what I think are simple questions!

Ahhhh! Thanks jamtoast & apologies for double post!

Some great tips and ideas here thanks ladies ,funnily enough she came home with a comprehension sheet the other day, its was a simple book but I was struggling with the comprehension, is my older brain really that addled .

Some other schools books have also had questions in the back so I have started to pay more attention to these and ask questions...and when we are reading one of her choice books I will now stop and ask her to point to words that describe different stuff...ask her more questions and so on.

We are working on more rounded aspects of her reading now.

Nice one rainrain

:)