does your school set cildren in year 5 and 6 for maths english and science.?

[clockwatching77]

My ds' s school is a middle school so they have specialised teaching and setting in year 5 and 6. Just wondering if your primary schools do the same. Also is it a good or bad thing? Thank you

No we don't as we believe it leaves some children behind

I must admit I grew up in primary / secondary system and I am feeling that 9 year olds are under too much pressure to be like secondary school pupils. Ds is in doing well but not sure if good or bad.

Sorr

Sorry thank you for reply mrz

Dd's school sets throughout the school from year 1. There is plenty of movement between sets and because they employ extra teachers sets can be very small for those with highest needs.Dd quite likes having different teachers and different children to work with outside her own class.

I guess it does happen early on by placing pupils on different tables.

We set for maths but not science or English. We split 60 children among 3 teachers and classrooms for maths so 20 per classroom with 1teacher and 2TAs each. It means we are offering whole class teaching and small group tutoring. There is no 'ceiling' imposed and lots of movement between sets/groups for different objectives. it has worked really well over the last couple of years and we have moved from 50%L5 + to 85%L5 plus (100%L4) .
However we don't believe this set up would be as effective in English so keep the children in mixed ability classes for this.

Sounds great. Ds has 30 in his class with just 1 teacher sleepy

He los out in lower school too when they had 30 I n top set with no ta support.

Although this was only for maths.

Dd's school divides 2 classes into 5 or 6 groups each with a teacher and TA's (2 in dd's top group and suspect more in lower groups) They have single sex groups too, dd gained so much confidence in y3 in the girls group which is just what she needed at that time. It seems to work for her anyway.

How is it leaving children behind, as long as those children are still being given support to work at their pace they're not "behind" surely, they're just going at a pace which is right for them.

Our school sets across years five and six (one class entry school) for writing and maths. On the whole I think it is a bad thing (unless you are a year five in the top set).

read the research BBJGM

"setting may produce more negative than positive consequences amongst mathematics students, with a high proportion of students wanting to move sets or change to mixed ability teaching;"

MRZ is right. There is a lot of good quality research suggesting setting does leave some children behind. Much of it is to do with teacher expectations and the child's perception of their own ability.
As a school we spent a lot of time reviewing the research and decided in the end to go for it. It is working for us but we have done a LOT of training around high teacher expectation for each child/no artificial ceilings and a lot of work on self esteem. We have also had a few meetings with parents to ensure they understood our new way of setting. It is working for us but we are constantly reviewing our approach.

yes the primary does, the sets are very porous ime, with people moving in & out of sets which have ability overlap as well, anyway.

Yes they do in maths for year 6 and I would rather they didn't but it's all for the Sats!

Has there been any research suggesting, or do you think, that no setting in maths would leave higher ability children not achieving as much as otherwise?? (Sorry for changing the subject, but very interested. Thank you.)

DS's school has done setting from Year 1, There are 3 classes/teachers per year plus 3 teaching assistants so they split into 3 ability groups for maths, English and science, with 1 TA and 1 teacher per group but go back to their normal classes for everything else.

DD's school don't but there are only 15 children a year, with a teacher and a TA, so there would be no point.

I cannot see if you do not set in maths, how you could give a lesson to those who are struggling with place value and those who can simplify surds.

By not setting, it may not be leaving those who are struggling behind, but it will be hindering those who are ahead.

Only for maths. 90 children divided between 4 groups. The most able group has the highest amount of children in it and the children that struggle are taught in a very small group.

Dd's school used to set in English and maths from yr1

This has shown fantastic results in maths with all children last year achieving a minimum of l4, 65% got level 5 and 9 out of 58 children got level 6

The results in English have been less convincing with the school believing that the lower ability benefit from working with the higher ability and have now removed sets

One of the down sides of setting for maths is that there is 30 kids in each class. So for a child to move up, another child has to move down...all the kids talk about how awful it must be for the child who has been kicked out of the top group...it's really shitty for them, what effect will it have on their confidence to have such a public downgrading at primary?

Yes in maths and literacy, though more structured in maths than literacy (they have different work on different tables, but all on same theme/topic to different levels). In maths, 60 kids across the year group are split into two classrooms, and then subdivided onto tables in similar way to literacy. In literacy, each class has its own table groups for specific tasks, eg guided reading, and groups come together for certain other tasks.