Big primary, Small primary?

[wannaBanana]

I chose a 2-form-entry primary for my DCs, in preference to a 3FE school a similar distance away. Both were rated good, so the school size was one of the main reasons for my choice. I thought my sensitive DC would feel less overwhelmed in a smaller school, and it would help to build his confidence. The smaller school also felt less crowded at break-times, because it had more playground space per-child.

I haven't regretted my choice. My DCs know the names of nearly everyone in their school, as do the teachers. They're able to have whole-school assemblies, and Christmas Plays that give everyone a small part to play. My DCs are developing into confident, outgoing young people, who are very comfortable at school.

However, as they grow older, I'm also looking over the fence and seeing the relative advantages of bigger schools; not just the 3FE school I originally looked at, but also the 4FE school slightly further away that I never even considered.

Larger pupil numbers bring more funding, so they have additional facilities, such as astro-turf pitches. Their bigger pool of staff and keen-to-volunteer parents mean that they can offer much more by way of extra-curricular activities.

I'm noticing a direct connection between that and their performance in borough sports competitions. The parents at my DCs school routinely complain about lame PE, minimal after-school activities, and a defeatist attitude to inter-school competitions (not just in sport; we tend not to compete well in other activities too).

As my DC1 is pretty sporty, and competitive, I can see that he would have got a lot out of a bigger school, that could perhaps afford a specialist PE teacher, rather than just a couple of members of staff who are keen to coordinate those sorts of activities, but who are not particularly good at it.

Anyway, I've waffled on a bit, but I'd be interested to hear other people's perspectives on their choice of a small school over a big one, or vice versa.

To me your 2 form entry school sounds quite big as it's twice the size of my DCs school. I like the size of their school but probably wouldn't want a smaller one.

Love our 3 form - huge resources and opportunities . Specialist sports and music teachers etc Greater pool of friends to make - I was worried that my very sporty lively DD didn't find friends like her in her class at a small school etc

Bigger pool of pupils to select from, too. Say 50% of your 2FE school are boys, and you pick the top 11 from Y6 for the team, you're picking 11 from 30. Pick a team from a 3FE school and you have a pool of 45 boys to choose your 11 from. A 4FE school would have 60-odd boys.

If it's a mixed team, you're picking the top 11 from a pool of 60 or a pool of 90, or 120...

The average at each school is likely to be around the same standard, but at one school the average of all the boys is going to be 15th in the class, so a good chance of being selected for that team of 11 at some point. In the 3FE school the average boy is 23rd, so a good chance of being selected for the B team - if there is one - but little chance of the A team. In 4FE, the ave boy is only 30th out of the 60 boys.

Not really surprising at the bigger schools tend to do better - say your DS is just inside the top quartile at sports, he still wouldn't make the boys-only team of 11 at the 4FE school. Would the knock in confidence be outweighed by the better facilities/teaching? Do the extracurricular facilities offered by a big school count for more than the 'nurturing' nature of the small one? Big fish in small pond or small fish in big one?

I don't have any of the answers, just pondering this Q myself as we're looking to move house and we could be looking at anything from 3FE to half-form entry (12!).

That is defo why bigger schools have an advantage at winning sports comps... My mate used to laugh that her child at small school ended up in teams even tho she was not that sporty but they never won anything! Our big school is very nurturing and I am amazed how small if feels day to day. I used to think small, but having looked round loads I changed my mind. Visit all that you consider as even 'similar' schools vary massively

My children attended a small primary 15intake to me 60intake is a large school Despite there being some 2 and 3 form schools nearish to us they last year won basketvall tournament came 2nd in rugby and netball abd had best group result for swimming gala. This is due to dedicated staff who gets the children enthusiastic. Size of school wont matter if staff is not dedicated.

Pros and cons of large and small school what it comes down to is how good a fit you and your child is for that school.

Simply because a school is big doesn't make it better nor doest being a small school make it better.

my dd1started in a 2form entry infant it was great for hrrm dd2 was very unhappy and we moved her.

a county move meant the small primary yhat has been fantastic for all my 4 however dd1 abd likely ds would have done great in most environment. Dd2 needs a smaller environment dd3..... heavens knows haha

The bigger school would be great if your DC gets into the first team in whatever sport but, of course, there is more competition to get in to the team. Is there opportunity to compete if you aren't good enough for the first team. At that age developing skills - which will have nothing to do with school size- is surely more important than winning everything.

Well we are at a 4 form entry! It changed after we joined. I was overwhelmed at the size when it was two form! But son has never had a problem with it. Compared to the closer one form there's more competing when you have 120 in a year but also more opportunity. After school sports available are football, rugby, tennis, multi sports (aka athletics) gymnastics, and street dance. The one form has football. That is one example.

But as said not being able to have whole school assemblies, having to partition off the Christmas play (you can't even have a whole year one so for parents with four kids at school you may have four performances to attend in different days).

It is all swings and roundabouts. I am grateful my son's school has someone on site who does OT and speech therapy. Help is immediate and accessible.

I hate that the playground is so crowded.

I am biased towards bigger for all the reasons OP mentions, although obviously other factors can matter a lot (see below).
Society is a busy place with lots happening & many types of people, I'd only want to shield DC from that as a very last resort.
I can't really grasp how smaller means less overwhelming anyway, but I haven't tried it so shouldn't comment.

I get impression that people who like smaller schools are sure that their child will get more individual attention and get appreciated as individuals. If anything, to me the opposite seems likely: because smaller school has to stretch fewer resources further. Also, if in a smaller school a child get a excellent/bad rep then that spreads faster & stays deeper; in a big school there's higher staff turn-over or staff who have no 1st hand experience so take your child as a brand new person.

I suspect that the real trick is, if you have the option, to choose a school that is under-subb'd. Not the school in DesRes areas or the one with top results. I worked out that the class sizes for DS will probably be

24-27: reception, y1, y3-y5
22: y2, y6

None of this 30-35 in a class experience many MNers talk about.

All because the school across town is now rated Outstanding & ours is merely ReqImp/Good. Their school is heaving & ours bumbles along the same as ever.

We moved from a three full forms school to a mostly full two form school and I haven't noticed much difference really. Except I am capable of holding a larger proportion of the children's names in my head.
I think a school with 12 children a year would be very different to one with 90 though.

I visited a school with a role of 86. It was a lot to get my head around. Mentally I kept thinking I was looking at one year group at, for example playtime, and had to keep reminding myself it was the whole school.

Y2, Y3 and Y4 were all in one class. This was hard for my friend as it meant all three of her children were in the same class at that time, an it was causing a few issues between them.

Sons primary is actually bigger than two of the secondaries he might move in to, so I feel a lot better about his ability to cope in future too.

I find it amazing a 2 form entry school has a defeatist attitude, OP. In a rural area, this would be considered a mid to large size school! Also children vary in their talents so some years there could be quite a sporty bunch of children, others years less so. The school should be enthusiastic about trying to get goods teams together, not just accepting they cannot do well. I would consider moving to a school with a 'can do' ethos.

I felt my children would benefit most from having a wealth of opportunities available and activities such as learning an instrument, ensemble playing and orchestra/choir were definitely better in our larger school with able and committed staff. Smaller schools had less children so fewer opportunities. The key though is to have "able and committed staff". This trumps everything!

My DC is at a one form entry school which manages to have an amazing range of after school activities, offers specialist activities, does ok at sporting competitions, etc. I think it is the school leadership, as opposed to the size of the school.

DD was in the nursery class of a 1FE primary and there were 25 of them which was perfect for that year.

She's now in a 2FE primary in Reception. Personally I wouldn't want her in a smaller school. There's lots of choices for friendships for a start. Small schools with only a few girls in each year group can create far more problems if they fall out as there aren't lots of others to go and play with instead.

Despite the school having over 400 pupils, everyone seems to know her (she is rather extroverted) and she's very happy there.

I don't think I'd have gone for a 3 or 4 FE for Primary though.

DD is at a very small school (15 children in her year) DS is in a 3FE (89 children in his year).

DD gets a lot more 1 to 1 attention and knows everyone's name, they do lots of clubs and sports things and because they are a small school everyone gets a chance to join in sports/team events.

DS's school sports team is much better, or at lest win far more often but there are 90 children to pick the teams from so try outs get quite competitive. DS has far more choice of friends so when he has a falling out with a friendship group there's loads of other people to play with, rather than it being 1/2 the year group like it is at DD's school.

I'm not sure that 1 is better than the other though, it just depends on the child, DS would hate DDs school and DD wouldn't cope in DSs school.

DC are at a 4 form entry junior school. I was a bit wary that the school was too big (we didn't have an alternative option) but actually it works well. For DS, the larger school has meant a bigger friendship pool (he hates football which restricts him a lot!). But your benefits of the small school still appply - he still knows most people in the school, there is lots of playground space, they have whole school assemblies (though it is a squeeze) and everyone who wants it get parts in the school play.

Plus, as you say, there is more funding so more opportunities available, they do well at some sports in inter school competitions. They are known well by head of year and all teachers in the year. The school can manage both to support the weakest students and the most able (by virtue of numbers there is a reasonable cohort of both ends).

I also suspect that a huge advantage is that moving to a 240 children in a yea secondary school will not be such a big jump - and of course he will already know almost half the children in his year group! I'd worry about him struggling with moving to a huge secondary from a small primary.