State or Private?

[MezleyM]

My eldest is at a small, non-selective prep school. He's been there since nursery, and I have always been very happy with it. My youngest is at the nursery there, and will be reception in September. My question is two fold. Firstly, DP has decided (and I don't fully understand why, despite much discussion...) that he is against private education full stop. He is therefore pushing very hard to take eldest out, and for youngest to go to a local state primary. I think the main factor for him is money (it is an expense, which means we go without other things, but affordable). To complicate this, I am actually a teacher myself, in a good state secondary. I am well aware that state schools can provide an excellent standard of education, but I can also see through the blarney in Ofsted reports, and worry that teachers spend far too much time sorting out the minority at the expense of the majority. My son is above average academically (but by no means a genius), but sport mad, so benefits enormously from the extra curricular parts. My youngest is more complicated, and I think could easily be labelled as difficult or SEN in a class of 30, whereas they know and understand him where he is (an will be in a class of 16).
I am very happy with where they are. In the future, secondary private is possibly/likely to be beyond our budget (we're not in a selective area either). This is causing enormous disharmony with DP. So secondly, should I give in, and take the boys out of a school I and they love? Or is DP right, and actually, the good state primary just down the road will be just fine? I know every school is different, but if anyone has any experience of a similar choice I would appreciate your thoughts. I'm not ideologically wedded to either - I just want what is best for my children.

We have recently moved our DS from an oustanding state to an academic prep.. i would say the difference is huge! that said i don't think we can compare a good state school with a good private school - it depends on what you want for your child!! People go for private because (good)private schools have better sports, better academics, exposure to lot of languages and better music.. the facilities/wrap around care are a bonus.. there are good state schools all over the country but sadly not where we live!! good luck with your decision.

Surely your DP needs to explain why he has changed his mind (am assuming from what you've said he supported the private school choice originally)?

Unless he's been exposed to some new arguments that he had not considered before then I wonder if he just wants more disposable income available?

On the other hand you perhaps need to think about whether it's worth going to the local primary IF that would establish friendship groups before starting secondary and how you would weigh that social benefit against the other benefits of your current private primary. To counter that I think some evidence suggests that learning habits are established in primary so there is an argument that private primary is more important than secondary. Of course really it all depends on the particular schools in your locale.

Ultimately without knowing your DPs arguments it's hard to weigh them against the (inevitable) counter arguments.

I think the root of the answer lies in your DP’s objection to the private school. Is it just money?

It sounds from your OP, that if DH were happy, you would be leaving your DC where they were with no question.
If money is the issue what is the issue – he’s worried you’ll struggle to keep up with rising fees? He’s worried about having to “do without” for a longer time? He’d prefer to save the money towards something else (maybe even private secondary?)

I can’t tell you if the state school down the road will be just as good, because I don’t know your local state school –or your current school. I do think you and DP need to perhaps work out pros and cons of both options.

Thank you for the replies. I think the root of this is with my OH, and I really struggle to get to the bottom of it. His answer is always "I just don't agree with private education" and I can't get any further. I think the money issue is a big part of this, which is actually extremely complex and a whole other story.
I suppose we sort of fell into private education - at the time the nursery there suited our needs, but having experiencing the 'other side' so to speak (we were both state educated and have done fairly well), I am reluctant to leave a school that they are both so happy at.

Another couple of practical considerations:-

1. Would you be able to get a local state primary school place? In many areas now space is tight and you may end up with a place in a school you don't like a long way away.
2. If you work (especially in a school) would you have a long enough school day in the state sector to cover your childcare needs, and is wrap around care available at a decent price. Bear in mind that if afterschool care is offsite, your son may not be able to take part in after school sports or other clubs. Also, drop off and pickup windows tend to be much shorter.

If these issues are not resolvable in your local state offering, then drilling down to find the real objections with private education may be a little pointless.

I'd be very reluctant to move them from a school they are happy at.

Agree with souperb.

Your DH may just be thinking we'll save £x a month but you may need to pay for extra childcare (is there any at the other school?). Plus who would ferry children to the extra activities that are probably done on site at current school - DH?

My DD is at a small non selective private - 15 in her class. Her school hours are 8.40 until 4.15/30. I couldn't work the hours I do without childcare at a state school. Plus she does swimming, french etc at school so no need to ferry to swimming lessons etc.

We have recently moved to an area with two outstanding state primaries but I have no intention of moving her. She is doing well academically, has friends and is thriving and happy.

Can you get a babysitter and go out for a proper chat with DH? He can't be opposed to private if he has enrolled his child there.

I think you have to weigh up what the private school actually offers over and above the state school. Being in a cosy school is not always the best preparation for senior school. My DD2 attended a nursery at a local private school. She did not stay beyond Nursery but most parents chose it for wrap around care. Academically it was average and few children made it to the local grammar schools and the junior department was very short of children. Many that remained were so average they could not even make it into the local independent school that mostly took the non grammar school children. The music was ok at best, basic French was taught but sport was disappointing (always thumped due to lack of numbers in the age groups) The school had no indoor sports hall, no dedicated art room and was losing children so no new resources. Obviously we had no intention of staying there and the local state infant and junior school was infinitely better, except no French. Larger class sizes there were not a problem as fortunately the state school teachers were a whole lot better and more experienced than those employed at the independent school. Some people will happily pay for second best because it suits their lifestyle. In reality nearly every child there could have had a broader, and better, education in the state sector.

Having said that, DD2 eventually went to a top girls boarding prep school that had everything. This was better than state schools and the sport, music and art in particular were outstanding. I would pay for this but not for a very "bog standard" independent school just because it had small classes. Your OH may have a point if your school is "bog standard" and not gold standard.

Slight lateral thinking option - is there any chance you could aspire to a job at an appropriate independent school by the time your children are ready for secondary? Because if so that would significantly reduce the fees in many cases. Might be an option to run past your partner as part of the process of trying to understand exactly what is worrying him most.

If you are not planning to educate privately (or selectively) at secondary then I would be wary of doing so at primary. The jump from primary to secondary is big at the best of times. Coming from private would make it huge.

This is one of many reasons we are going state primary. Current plan is private secondary but not sure. And the state primary looks good. The difference in money will pay for a lot of tennis lessons / gym club / private tutors.

Lots of good points above.

The one thing I would say - and sorry if this is too intrusive - do you honestly have a grasp on your family finances and if so, can you really see where he is coming from?

just do a credit check to see if there are issues he's not willing to talk to you about

I've heard of several friends partners getting into secret severe debt to the tune of thousands of pounds (I'm talking about £230,000!!!!).

Please just check.

Keep them in. The father allowed one to go private to start with. He should not change his mind now. Without doubt the privates are better. He is being very silly by objecting. Lots of teachers help solve the money question by working in the same private school for a discount or by working for 4 weeks in holiday clubs at holiday times and exam paper marking and other jobs to make extra money in school holidays to help with family expenses if finances is his main concern.

Has this happened really suddenly? It seems strange if so. Like StarWars I'd be worried about the state of the family finances.

That aside, it really depends on the state schools your DC would get into. My DC are at the local state primary, we could afford private but I'm very happy with their school experience so far.

"Has this happened really suddenly? It seems strange if so. Like StarWars I'd be worried about the state of the family finances."

I was wondering if your husband's employer had recently announced a round of redundancies and he felt unable to discuss this with you.

Thank you for your comments. The only financial consideration is that OH thinks it is a waste of money. He is in a very secure job, and has inherited a significant (not life changing, but enough) sum of money in the last two years. Our mortgage is small. I earn more than he does.
My feeling is that he had quite a difficult childhood, and he feels intimidated by some aspects of the private system. He has also done significantly better than his siblings and he carries a lot of guilt about this.
But your responses have confirmed that this is about his issues, and not about the school, so thank you.

My youngest has always attended private education, however my eldest two attended a state primary school and were in a state secondary school up until the end of September last year, my daughter was finding it hard to concentrate due to the other children in her class being very disruptive and being allowed to get away with it throughout the whole lesson. So my husband and I suggested to the both of them that they change schools, my son wanted to stay where he was due to him not wanting to leave his friends behind, but after going to look at the other school which had so much more to offer to them, they both agreed that's where they wanted to spend their final secondary school years, they both really enjoy it.